What has changed about our society that has created these mass shooters.

This is a discussion on What has changed about our society that has created these mass shooters. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by bklynboy What's changed?....Deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill since the 1960's Mental Illness is the issue. Read these: Column: Dealing with guns and ...

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Thread: What has changed about our society that has created these mass shooters.

  1. #46
    Member Array RonM0710's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynboy View Post
    What's changed?....Deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill since the 1960's
    Mental Illness is the issue.

    Read these:

    Column: Dealing with guns and mental illness

    'I Am Adam Lanza's Mother': A Mom's Perspective On The Mental Illness Conversation In America

    Here is where we need to focus some of our time and money.
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  3. #47
    Member Array Bigpoppa48's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    Why does it always fall back on the "current administration" ?
    Because the people making these statements honestly do no know any better and believe everything that is wrong is the current administration's fault.
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  4. #48
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    What has changed about our society that has created these mass shooters.
    IMO, some of these aspects haven't helped:

    • A continuing vacillation with handling violent criminals, such that (to them, the criminals) the "justice" system has simply become a legal meat grinder that can be waited-out, all the while treating imprisonment as "three squares a day" and post-grad crime school.

    • Continuing vacillation with legislation, continuing to weaken things beyond recognition. Frau Feinstein and Herr Schumer come to mind.

    • Continuing taking from states, pushing responsibilities and funding "up" to Uncle, instead of keeping problem-solving local like it once was, serving to dramatically inflame people's sense of lack of empowerment, hopelessness to effect change.

    • Continuing budget pressures that have taken "beat" cops off the street and out of the neighborhoods.

    • Continuing malfeasance and crimes at the congressional level that has served only to eviscerate any trust in their ability to fairly and effectively get the job done. Being beholden to the highest bidder doesn't help, as many of them sadly are.

    • Continuing promotion of legalese-infested statutes regarding use-of-force that effectively bewilder and hogtie the average citizen, including enticing energetic prosecutors to go after the folks left standing.

    • A rise of incredibly well-funded and uber-violent gangs across every town and city.

    • A simple realization on the part of the average violent criminal that JFK was right: often, all it takes is for a person to be willing. Well, murderers and robbers have learned that lesson really well.

    • Lack of guiding moral principles taught to our children. Church, parenting, ...

    • Lack of a stable, one-parent-at-home / one-parent-working type arrangement that affords kids a constant chaperone and example in their daily lives.

    • The rise of the 24x7 media-blitz daily environment, for many, in which doom-and-gloom protestations, blood and gore, and dire import of societal/governmental changes is practically all that people see, hear.

    • So many distractions competing for our attention that, for many (most?), the "simple life" is dead, breeding mistrust, frustration and anger ... sure to be released in ugly ways by many.
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  5. #49
    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
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    What's changed? Well, urban living is more likely to create mental illness. It's not common, but it's still there even though we try to ignore it. What else has changed? Well, we seriously underfund mental illness medical R&D. So, it's a percolating issue.
    Our current plan for Universal Iron Lung coverage, just sayin'.
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  6. #50
    Member Array Bigpoppa48's Avatar
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    Let me say this, I was just in the hospital for an overnight stay for hernia surgery. After the surgery I had an additional overnight stay. Now this is only two nights stay in the hospital and guess what the bill was, yeah $14446.29 granted I have Blue Cross and Blue Shield insurance so it didn't cost me a dime but I am still concerned at the high cost of medical coverage. Now I am blessed enough to have medical coverage for this but what about the millions of people that don't and I suspect a large and I mean a very large percentage of the people that need mental health coverage don't have it, so what do they do. I might add that the bill I stated does not include the cost of the surgery and numerous other charges that I will not get into.

  7. #51
    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigpoppa48 View Post
    Let me say this, I was just in the hospital for an overnight stay for hernia surgery. After the surgery I had an additional overnight stay. Now this is only two nights stay in the hospital and guess what the bill was, yeah $14446.29 granted I have Blue Cross and Blue Shield insurance so it didn't cost me a dime but I am still concerned at the high cost of medical coverage. Now I am blessed enough to have medical coverage for this but what about the millions of people that don't and I suspect a large and I mean a very large percentage of the people that need mental health coverage don't have it, so what do they do. I might add that the bill I stated does not include the cost of the surgery and numerous other charges that I will not get into.
    The Hospital doesn't want you to leave. Stay and run as many tests as possible to run up the bill. It's ridiculous.
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  8. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    The Hospital doesn't want you to leave. Stay and run as many tests as possible to run up the bill. It's ridiculous.
    Not true. They want you out as soon as the insurance company says that's all they'll pay for.
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  9. #53
    Member Array Aiko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXxplosive View Post
    "Video games don't turn kids into killers any more than liking the color purple makes you gay"


    IMO, these are not games but killing videos....and.....How do you know liking the color purple.....doesn't make you Gay.......? Hmmmm.........
    Silliness

  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    The draft? You got to be kidding me. The draft was not instituted to form a social conscience. It was to get enough people to fight in WWI and then continued onto other wars. How on earth would that help with some of these tragedies?

    A lot of gang bangers are not of draft age and by the time they are they have committed crimes that would preclude them frim the military

    - Timothy McVeigh was in the army as well as his co conspirators
    -Aurora? Yeah, I am sure that bott camp would have brought some sense to this sick persons mind
    - Conn? The man could not possibly get into the military with his mental condition or what ever he had
    -Columbine? They were still in HS
    - Iowa shooting in 91, done by a student from China

    My list goes on and on

    I did a look at all of these mass shooting and killings since 1985 and others and most would not have been stopped by the "draft" Many were under 18, some were in there 30-50's and had been in the military, others were mentaly ill (no excuse, just could not get into the military), a few were not US citizens.

    So please, tell me how the draft would help out all of these mass shootings.

    Sorry, it is just a cliche that folks use without doing any research. Just like there needs to be more God in schools. Just nice catch phrases that makes people feel like there is a simple solution to a complex and hard to understand problem we have with folks in this country.
    Since I originally brought up the draft in answer to "What's Changed?", let me see if I can answer you. Keep in mind, I'm not disagreeing just offering my thoughts. While you may have studied the mass killings, you seem to be lumping them together.

    McVeigh was a terrorist. He had a purpose. So did Eric Rudolph and that nutjob in Norway. For this argument, they don't count. We're talking about that 18-25 year old unemployed wandering aimlessly male who has the time on his hands to dream up stuff like this. Would a draft help weed out the misfits on a section 8 discharge and make it harder for some of them to purchase weapons? Possibly. Would it put idle minds to work? Possibly. Would it help with that unemployment problem? Possibly.

    There aren't any easy answers or solutions. The question was asked and that was one thing that popped into my head and now you know my thinking behind it.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  11. #55
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    Getting away from our founding priciples. Without a belief in God what makes a human life more sacred than a chicken or a cow. Without fear of punishment both on earth and in the after life what is there to keep someone from taking their own life and others on their way out.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

  12. #56
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene83 View Post
    Since I originally brought up the draft in answer to "What's Changed?", let me see if I can answer you. Keep in mind, I'm not disagreeing just offering my thoughts. While you may have studied the mass killings, you seem to be lumping them together.

    McVeigh was a terrorist. He had a purpose. So did Eric Rudolph and that nutjob in Norway. For this argument, they don't count. We're talking about that 18-25 year old unemployed wandering aimlessly male who has the time on his hands to dream up stuff like this. Would a draft help weed out the misfits on a section 8 discharge and make it harder for some of them to purchase weapons? Possibly. Would it put idle minds to work? Possibly. Would it help with that unemployment problem? Possibly.

    There aren't any easy answers or solutions. The question was asked and that was one thing that popped into my head and now you know my thinking behind it.
    I understand where you are coming from, but staying on topic and talking about mass killings I looked back in history and most would not be prevented from a draft. A lot of the guns are legally purchased or stolen. Some folks had been in the military then went bonkers. Others were just too young for it to matter.

    Again, on topic and about preventing mass shootings.

    Off topic: We could not afford a draft and I do not think we need everyone to be forced into the military.
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  13. #57
    Senior Member Array Cokeman's Avatar
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    Morgan Freeman’s brilliant take on what happened :

    “You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here’s why.

    It’s because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
    people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he’ll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

    CNN’s article says that if the body count “holds up”, this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer’s face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer’s identity? None that I’ve seen yet. Because they don’t sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you’ve just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

    You can help by forgetting you ever read this man’s name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news.”
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  14. #58
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I understand where you are coming from, but staying on topic and talking about mass killings I looked back in history and most would not be prevented from a draft. A lot of the guns are legally purchased or stolen. Some folks had been in the military then went bonkers. Others were just too young for it to matter.

    Again, on topic and about preventing mass shootings.

    Off topic: We could not afford a draft and I do not think we need everyone to be forced into the military.
    I don't disagree with you. The question was "What's changed?"

    Some people brought up separation of church and state issues or whatever. I can go through a whole list of stuff from the cancellation of "Captain Kangaroo" to the evaporation of the middle class. Like you said. There aren't any easy answers.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

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    Ex Member Array CharlesMorri's Avatar
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    What has changed about our society that has created these mass shooters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aiko View Post
    Silliness
    I know.....

    I'm sorry about that...

    I've been playing video games since Pong and right up to Call of Duty.

    I haven't killed anyone.

    One more thing.. I just turned 49 so I've been playing for YEARS!

  16. #60
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    First excuse my typing . What has changed let me see when I was very young we went to school and had about one hour of homework when we got home then we would actually go outside to play playing ball or going out in the woods running and doing things outside in the fresh air, today children have about three hours of homework and very few of them go out to play, they go on the computer and play video games and because of this they are exposed to a lot of violence and no exercise , and from lack of exercise some of them become a little fidgety during the day in school so the doctor prescribes drugs to put them on instead of going out and playing and get some exercise, and the food I ate as a child was real food today most of the food people eat is mostly chemicals, and when I was a child my father had one job that was enough to support a household, today both parents have to work sometimes a couple jobs so we have no child supervision at home sometimes, years ago most all Americans had a job that was when America made everything in this country and all the factories employed the American people, today half of America is out of work because all these American corporations no longer make their products here but yet they want to sell them here, and years ago our government wasn't telling the people these are jobs we no longer want that these jobs are now for the illegal aliens that are here who you have to support, so now we have a tremendous amount of stress in family environments, years ago the insurance companies did not control the medical industry because of how much money they would pay out, so today we have a lot of unstable people walking around the streets because the insurance companies will not pay for them to be instituted they put them on the honor system you take your medication and be a good boy, years ago when all the immigrants came to this country they wanted to be part of this country and become American, but today the immigrants that come to this country they want this country to become part of them, so America as we know it is deteriorating into what I don't know, and the violence on TV and in the movies and those video games is nothing like when I was a child the only violence I had on TV when I was very young was maybe Elliot Ness, just about every little boy had a BB gun and played cowboys and Indians with his Sixshooter, today if a child goes outside with a BB gun to play with somebody calls the police, and I have only scratched the surface of the differences that have changed in this country

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