What has changed about our society that has created these mass shooters. - Page 5

What has changed about our society that has created these mass shooters.

This is a discussion on What has changed about our society that has created these mass shooters. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I don't think that the root cause is just one thing, so banning any one thing really won't help. But, I don't think that it's ...

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  1. #61
    Senior Member Array cn262's Avatar
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    I don't think that the root cause is just one thing, so banning any one thing really won't help. But, I don't think that it's just desensitization to violence - it's glorification of violence. This not only devalues human life, but also helps create heroes out of violent psychopaths.

    I mentioned accountability earlier, but if you think about it that stems from parenting. Same with media. You can't control everything your kids watch, hear, or play. But, you can help them understand the importance of making good decisions and the implications of those decisions (good or bad). Having some level of daily engagement, knowing their friends, looking for signs of problems, etc. are all important. I also believe that things like hunting help - seeing the outcome of shooting something and making this tangible (something a video game doesn't provide).

    It took a generation to get us to this point. There needs to be a desire to change and become better people if we want to see real change, and from a practical perspective that could take another generation to fully take effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by d2jlking View Post
    Interesting point. My kids have played video games and my son has played the first person shooter games. Believe what you want but todays children are more desensitized to violence then the last generation. Just as my generation is more desensitized than my parents were as kids. Not sayig videogames are the reason for mass killings. But society as a whole places less value on human life. Movies, games AND real life all prove that. Think about the evolution of video games......pong. Atari space invaders. Super mario brothers, sonic the hedgehog. Sports games. Grand theft auto, call of duty. Halo. Its a different kind of entertainment. The new shooter games are steeped in reality, without the consequences. I know teenagers that know more about automatic weapons, firing rates, and ballistics than i do. All from these games. Im not in favor of banning anything, but im not blind either


  2. #62
    Senior Member Array d2jlking's Avatar
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    What has changed about our society that has created these mass shooters.

    Quote Originally Posted by peckman28 View Post
    Yes and back in the 1950s and 1960s "society" endorsed the notion that the State owns your body, and can confiscate it to send it to Southeast Asian nations to fight and die in pointless, no-win wars. You're trying to tell me we place less of a value on human life now than we did "then" because we have violent videogames? I don't buy it for one second. If we placed less value on human life now these kinds of things should be more common, but they aren't. There wasn't even a copy of Doom in existence in 1992, and that's when our murder rate peaked in this country. Sad though it is, there are crazy people out there. Always have been and always will be. On the same day as Newtown some lunatic in China walked into a school and slashed 22 kids. Trying to find some "root cause" is going to drive you up a wall and you're never going to get anywhere with it.
    Ummmm. Okay
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  3. #63
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesMorri View Post
    I know.....

    I'm sorry about that...

    I've been playing video games since Pong and right up to Call of Duty.

    I haven't killed anyone.

    One more thing.. I just turned 49 so I've been playing for YEARS!
    Of course you haven't. Some people can separate fantasy from reality. Others find it more difficult. When I was a kid, we used to play cowboys and Indians. "Bang, bang, you're dead." We knew it was pretend. The more lifelike it is, the harder it is for some people to differentiate. They become one with the game and identify with the characters. Fantasy and reality merge. They act out.

    If you don't believe me, take a look at pornography on the internet. (not literally)

    There's this whole sub-group of animated pornography. Hentai...cartoon characters doing the dirty. Whatever. People watch it. People pay to watch it. Why? Cartoon characters excite them? Jessica Rabbit looks pretty hot? They get caught up in the fantasy and the next thing you know, they are trying to live it.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  4. #64
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynboy View Post
    What's changed?....Deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill since the 1960's and the demise of the two parent household
    Your second point may be quite true. I don't think many of us are experts in this field, but here's an anecdotal bit of info. My mom was a housewife and my dad went to work and provided for the family. When I was a sophomore in high school my mom started working to help fund the three kid's college funds. I ended up being a scholarship athlete and had part time jobs through college, but my parents were willing to and did help with some stuff.

    Point - when my mom started working is exactly when my little brother started to head in the wrong life direction. He's not a folon, but he has had some problems and could have used more guidance and supervision during his high school years.

    A man born in 1930 could have graduated from high school and provided for his family with a skilled labor type of job. Now it seems like both parents have to go to college and work full time to provide for their kids.

    I'm not going in to details, but I blame the Federal government and feminism for a variety of reasons.
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  5. #65
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Jessica Rabbit is pretty hot^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  6. #66
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Jessica Rabbit is pretty hot^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    LOL I was trying to be serious here.
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    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  7. #67
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    Proper parental guidance has changed.
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  8. #68
    Member Array AngryBadger417's Avatar
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    I would like to see most of the guys and ladies who posted on this thread in a public office! You guys actually get it! Today's media makes the killer out to be some kind of anti hero celebrity, everyone knows his name but I bet almost no one could name a single victim. Kids today( my age and younger, some older) have no sense of personal responsibility, they don't understand the concept of working for what you have. They don't understand that not everyone wins at everything. People lose! I am so thankful that I grew up in a small town with family that loved me and would put me in my place if I stepped out if line. I am also thankful for a place like this with people like you guys!
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  9. #69
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    My take on why these vicious attacks are happening nowadays:
    1. We are so politically correct nowadays, that people are afraid to say-- That guy/gal if flipping nuts. She needs to be locked away. Each of us knows a person that if they were to go on a murder spree, we'd say, "Doesn't surprise me". Okay why in God's name aren't we pushing for these people to be put away? Because that would be too callous.
    2. We don't spank our children anymore. Kids used to respect their parents. Screw up in a public place= short trip to the bathroom for a spanking. Screw up at home= no need to even make a trip to the bathroom. If you're a parent and reading this and you put your kids in time-out-- you are perpetuating sh$#head kids. When was the last time you saw a parent actually punish their kid? Lord no, not now, you'd get CPS called on you.
    3. Be a mass murderer... become an instant celebrity.
    4. Parents are relying on teachers to raise their kids. Not enough time spent showing a kid what is being taught to them might not be correct. Not bashing on teachers, just saying the three R's are their job, teaching our kids right from wrong is ours.
    5. Total numbness to tragedy in the X generation on. And please don't think I'm just blaming video games. I blame 24 hour news service showing GI's getting hit with IED's. I blame movies like Natural Born Killers, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Saw 1 through 200,302,032; but, in truth, I blame the parents for not explaining to their kids what they are watching or telling them they can't watch that movie.
    6. The media likes to victimize the criminal. Saying things like, "Alleged killer" when they have video of the demon actually shooting or stabbing somone. "Alleged robber", when the guy is video taped and pictured running out of a bank holding is face up to the camera with a copy of his drivers license beside his smiling face. They focus on how this person didn't get enough hugs when he/she was growing up.
    7. Finally, this is relevant only for the next month or so-- holiday time causes the stress-o-meter to peg out in the red. Not surprising when someone snaps. Especially with the cost of goods today.
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  10. #70
    Ex Member Array CharlesMorri's Avatar
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    What has changed about our society that has created these mass shooters.

    Some very good points in that last post! When I was a child and got out of line, my dad would put me back in line in a heart beat with a quick wallop to the side of my head!
    My mom would be happy to correct my smart mouth no matter where we were!
    I talked back to her ONCE on a public bus and got a nice big smack across the face for it. Right in front of everyone on the bus.
    Let me tell you... I was a good boy for the rest of that day!
    I agree about not reprimanding children. I think a time out only gives a child time to sulk and build up resentment. You know what happens when a child builds up too much resentment? They lash out at the kids around them if not the parent!
    Also I agree with the statement that we don't teach kids what it means to lose. That not every one wins all the time. Sporting events for kids that don't keep score? What kind of BS is that? Kids need to know that they lost this time. That its OK and with a little effort, they might win the next time.
    I think that a lot of the blame for these lunatics lies with the parents. The ones that think the teachers will raise their kids for them while they work two jobs to keep up with the Jones's.
    There should be better communication between teachers and parents as well. Pointing out when things go bad and looking for a solution together.
    I hate to be the one to say it but not every little girl or boy is perfect. Time to put a little more effort towards correcting that problem too.
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  11. #71
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Staying on topic here. Somebody explain to me how spanking kids is going to stop "these mass shooters" which is the title of the thread. This man had mental issues that a good spanking most likely would not have done anything.

    Hitler was most likely spanked as well as Stalin, Mussolini, the Boston Strangler, any mass murder that was born before (fill in the date here). Where is the stats that show spanking=less likely to be a mass murderer?

    I am not debating how parents raise there kids as long as it does not constitute abuse. But I can not find where spankings have anything to do with it. Can folks cite if the Columbine shooters were ever spanked? The dude from Aurora? Other mass shooters? Or do we just don't know and like to think because I was raised this way then everybody should.

    I was never spanke, nor was most of the firends I know. None are in jail or are mass murderes.
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    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  12. #72
    Distinguished Member Array VBVAGUY's Avatar
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    In my opinion and only my opinion is that it MUST start with the family. The parents must be the one to instill into their children morals and personal responsibility and to respect other people. Many children today do not have any morals or respect for others, yet they want people to respect them. Maybe we need to have it like other countries where when the person turns 18 they have a mandatory service in the US Military for 2 years so that the Drill instructors can instill any of the missing components that these children's parents may have missed in their up bringing. God Bless

  13. #73
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VBVAGUY View Post
    In my opinion and only my opinion is that it MUST start with the family. The parents must be the one to instill into their children morals and personal responsibility and to respect other people. Many children today do not have any morals or respect for others, yet they want people to respect them. Maybe we need to have it like other countries where when the person turns 18 they have a mandatory service in the US Military for 2 years so that the Drill instructors can instill any of the missing components that these children's parents may have missed in their up bringing. God Bless
    This is from a previous post in case you missed it:
    The draft? You got to be kidding me. The draft was not instituted to form a social conscience. It was to get enough people to fight in WWI and then continued onto other wars. How on earth would that help with some of these tragedies?

    A lot of gang bangers are not of draft age and by the time they are they have committed crimes that would preclude them frim the military

    - Timothy McVeigh was in the army as well as his co conspirators
    -Aurora? Yeah, I am sure that bott camp would have brought some sense to this sick persons mind
    - Conn? The man could not possibly get into the military with his mental condition or what ever he had
    -Columbine? They were still in HS
    - Iowa shooting in 91, done by a student from China

    My list goes on and on

    I did a look at all of these mass shooting and killings since 1985 and others and most would not have been stopped by the "draft" Many were under 18, some were in there 30-50's and had been in the military, others were mentaly ill (no excuse, just could not get into the military), a few were not US citizens.

    So please, tell me how the draft would help out all of these mass shootings.

    Sorry, it is just a cliche that folks use without doing any research. Just like there needs to be more God in schools. Just nice catch phrases that makes people feel like there is a simple solution to a complex and hard to understand problem we have with folks in this country.
    Off topic: We can't afford it and we do not need it. The military is not there to form a social conscience.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Staying on topic here. Somebody explain to me how spanking kids is going to stop "these mass shooters" which is the title of the thread. This man had mental issues that a good spanking most likely would not have done anything.

    Hitler was most likely spanked as well as Stalin, Mussolini, the Boston Strangler, any mass murder that was born before (fill in the date here). Where is the stats that show spanking=less likely to be a mass murderer?

    I am not debating how parents raise there kids as long as it does not constitute abuse. But I can not find where spankings have anything to do with it. Can folks cite if the Columbine shooters were ever spanked? The dude from Aurora? Other mass shooters? Or do we just don't know and like to think because I was raised this way then everybody should.

    I was never spanke, nor was most of the firends I know. None are in jail or are mass murderes.
    I was spanked and I've never committed any crime. My boys were spanked and they never committed any crimes either. In my mind, it's not so much "spanking" per se... rather the fact that as a child discipline was a part of my upbringing. Along with discipline, came the realization that I was, indeed accountable, and responsible for my actions. I was free to act in any way I chose, but I would be held accountable for how I chose to act. I think that's largely missing today from many families. As a result, I see little awareness, or concern in many children, of the fact that their actions will, or at least may have consequences.

    You can't teach "respect" until early grade school. (my opinion) I'm a firm believer that respect is bred out of fear... fear of a "time out", fear of being grounded, fear of getting your hand popped if you reach for a hot stove, and even fear of being spanked.

    no fear = no respect = no accountability = no (or very little) sense of right or wrong.
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  15. #75
    Distinguished Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
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    I think most people are misunderstanding what leads to a mass shooting. These are very, very rare events, because the mental illness/psychological conditions that lead to these problems are very rare. They're not solved by spanking. Sure, if we were complaining about the huge number of cigarette butts that get littered (sometimes a few times a day), then maybe "having a father and the occasional spanking" might be an answer.

    These illness, such as schizophrenia, are illnesses. This isn't "why are the skateboarding punks so foul-mouthed?"; this is "what causes such a psychological break that someone thinks this should happen?"
    suntzu likes this.
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