Sandy Hook is not about a need for gun control

Sandy Hook is not about a need for gun control

This is a discussion on Sandy Hook is not about a need for gun control within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; The core of the Sandy Hook situation is not about gun control. but as long as we pro-gun rights folks keep demanding that there be ...

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  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
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    Sandy Hook is not about a need for gun control

    The core of the Sandy Hook situation is not about gun control. but as long as we pro-gun rights folks keep demanding that there be no more laws, and pushing inflammatory responses about good guys with guns stopping bad guys with guns -- who wants to see the old west in every street in America? no one, not one of us -- but as long as our side of the fight keeps pushing back with inflammatory stuff, no one will get to the core of the problem.

    Sandy Hook wasn't about a criminal with guns; Lanza was not a criminal until Friday. Sandy Hook was not about getting guns off the street; the guns he had were in the hands of a law-abiding citizen, stored when not in use and not out on the street available for sale to any dirt bag with a fat wallet. Sandy Hook was about a disturbed young mind that needed help.

    But as long as both sides ratchet up the rhetoric, and the debate is fueled by things like the deaths of 20 innocent elementary school children, we will be on the losing side of the yelling and fighting.

    I'd suggest we stop yelling and fighting.

    If the NRA really wants to do some good, they should call the White House and offer to sit down and help figure out a way to make situations like this come to an end -- quietly and peacefully sit down at the table and discuss this. That's the only way, from this point forward, with the media firmly planted against us, that we stand a chance at re-gaining any credibility. Please know this: we cannot win the yelling match. The cards in their hands.

    I don't know what the solution is, but I have heard some interesting proposals that all have some merit. If we could get pro-gun and anti-gun people at one table to discuss some of these solutions, I'd bet we could get a some mutually beneficial conclusions. Will everything come out the way we want it to? No, but if we play our cards right they won't get everything the way they want it either. The only way to effect a reasonable and mutual solution is to have both sides talking reasonably.

    How many different proposals have you heard? Armed guards at schools? Armed teachers? Armed administration? How about, as one teacher suggested to me, a small school armory and an effort to teach those in the school that are comfortable with firearms how to access them and use them safely, so the teachers that are not comfortable can have a different role such as herding kids to safe places? That sounds like each school having a plan to deal with a potential threat. That's not a bad idea. But it won't get heard if we don't get in the debate, and we won't get in the debate as long as there's a stalemate.

    I say dial down the rhetoric and start offering positive, measureable and effective solutions to the problems, not fight about whether they're going to take our guns away.
    miller_man likes this.
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
    1 Thess. 5:16-18


  2. #2
    Member Array steffen's Avatar
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    Scare the people so we can take away their rights... 9/11 brought us the Patriot Act and the NDAA of 2011 destroying most of the constitution. Several mass shootings will now destroy what's left.
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  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
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    And I've about had it with the NRA on contacting them also:

    nra_contact.jpg

    You can't even contact them. I've tried this form five times; they don't really seem to want to hear from their members at all. No matter how I enter a remark, it keeps telling me to enter a valid message.
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
    1 Thess. 5:16-18

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    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Sandy Hook is not about a need for gun control

    I agree that both sides need to work towards solutions. However, if the defacto response is to slap restrictions on us that accomplish nothing, we have to respond to (and defeat) those first.

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    Member Array Drgnfly's Avatar
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    bigmacque likes this.

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    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
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    Sort of skeptical about the report that all the shooting was done with the M4......heard the initial reports that 2 hand guns were used and the rifle was found in the car.....now all the shooting was done with the rifle and a shotgun was found in the car......Hmmmm.....IMO....it sounds like someone is being told what to say to the media to make the case for the WH...........
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    Ex Member Array dbglock's Avatar
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    bidmacque, that's a very thoughtful and reasonable post, one of the very few I've seen posted here that weren't emotion-based. With one gun massacre after another occurring in this country, no one can expect that segment of society which already believes we have too easy access to guns will just keep quiet and say nothing. I'd be disappointed if they didn't because we do need a conversation and at least listen to each other and hear the other side's concerns. Both ways.

    That said, don't expect much in this regard from the NRA. They were too cowardly to even make a response after the massacre. I mean, how hard is it to say, "The killing of 20 innocent children at school is indeed a tragedy." Nope, they said they'll wait until all the facts are in. Yeah, right.
    Last edited by dbglock; December 17th, 2012 at 10:27 AM.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmacque View Post
    I say dial down the rhetoric and start offering positive, measureable and effective solutions to the problems, not fight about whether they're going to take our guns away.
    There is much "screaming" going on yes; much rhetoric.

    But also much in the way of fairly well thought-out proposals for different elements that can help address violence, despair, detection, interdiction.

    Nothing wrong with a bit of "screaming," a bit of intelligent proposing, particularly as it's still early days.

    It's complex. No one aspect is going to fix but a part of the overall problem, since in a population of 300M the sheer variety of motivations and methods by criminals is hard to get a handle on, and guard against completely.
    Hopyard and Glhadiator like this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    Ex Member Array dbglock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXxexplosive
    Sort of skeptical about the report that all the shooting was done with the M4......heard the initial reports that 2 hand guns were used and the rifle was found in the car.....now all the shooting was done with the rifle and a shotgun was found in the car......Hmmmm.....IMO....it sounds like someone is being told what to say to the media to make the case for the WH...........
    Every report I've seen said all the killing was done by two 9mm semi-autos: a Glock and a Sig.
    bigmacque likes this.

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    "Sandy Hook is not about a need for gun control"

    That's right, it's about a need for people control.
    bigmacque, HotGuns and Glhadiator like this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    I agree that both sides need to work towards solutions. However, if the defacto response is to slap restrictions on us that accomplish nothing, we have to respond to (and defeat) those first.
    We will not get the screaming and finger pointing out of the way with more screaming and finger pointing. The best offense is a good defense: it's time to shift the discussion to the real problems and stop letting people make this about guns and gun control. We need to be proactive in making that shift happen, and unfortunately we are all pinning our hopes on the NRA. The same NRA that has not even said, as noted above, that this was a tragedy. It was a tragedy, anyone that doesn't acknowledge that is heartless.
    Hopyard likes this.
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
    1 Thess. 5:16-18

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array DontTreadOnI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmacque View Post
    Sandy Hook was not about getting guns off the street; the guns he had were in the hands of a law-abiding citizen, stored when not in use and not out on the street available for sale to any dirt bag with a fat wallet.
    It's scary, the amount of quotes and comments I've seen in the last few days of people who think even law abiding citizens should not have guns in the first place.
    If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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    Member Array mg27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steffen View Post
    Scare the people so we can take away their rights... 9/11 brought us the Patriot Act and the NDAA of 2011 destroying most of the constitution. Several mass shootings will now destroy what's left.
    Im truley starting to wonder about whats really going on! Is this deeper than it appears? Or just being used to finally ban weapons of anykind for the first time. And O man would love to know that he is the first president to do it. More ppeople will die if we let the Govt, disarm us. Then they will have their way with us.. No thanks

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    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbglock View Post
    Every report I've seen said all the killing was done by two 9mm semi-autos: a Glock and a Sig.
    The latest I've heard has a 4th weapon , a shotgun, found left in the car. The kill weapon was the Bushmaster and the suicide weapon was one of the handguns. A handgun was also reportedly used in the murder of the shooter's mother. The Bushmaster and the two handguns were found with the shooter's body.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mg27 View Post
    Im truley starting to wonder about whats really going on! Is this deeper than it appears? Or just being used to finally ban weapons of anykind for the first time.
    It's about control, IMO. Control.

    One way or another, it's about altogether too many people continuing to believe that "representation" in congress/senate equates to tightening the knot. Trouble is, we've already got a Gordian knot of epic proportions. Trouble is, from a control perspective, it's still not enough. And so, we get another inch/mile taken with every "crisis," instead of simple, well-reasoned, practical improvements that avoid all the ugly unintended (even intentional) consequences and side-effects.
    HotGuns and Glhadiator like this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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