Would the gun community be opposed to such a measure? - Page 3

Would the gun community be opposed to such a measure?

This is a discussion on Would the gun community be opposed to such a measure? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Pyzik What would you say to the 12 year old who went and got her parents gun and shot the intruder while ...

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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyzik View Post
    What would you say to the 12 year old who went and got her parents gun and shot the intruder while she was home alone? What if she wasn't allowed access to it?
    12 Year Old OK Girl Shoots Home invader

    ^^^They, and the state of Texas^^^^^^^^^^

    And every other state would say, "tough kadiddlehoppers kid, you are going to die"

    How far are you people going to go, to let an ever increasingly intrusive Government, delve further into your life, and control it even further?

    They have places like that already, China, Mexico, most of Europe, Russia, and about 500+ more countries.
    If people don't like it here, why don't they move?
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

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  2. #32
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    I see a lawyer getting the mentally ill off for lying.......they were mentally ill. I would think the illness would need to be documented. I thought the current HIPPA laws protect medical records from release of information. My wife acts crazy sometimes but that doesn't count. I would think if there was an unstable family member, no law would be required for me to keep them locked up.
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  3. #33
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    ^^^They, and the state of Texas^^^^^^^^^^

    And every other state would say, "tough kadiddlehoppers kid, you are going to die"

    How far are you people going to go, to let an ever increasingly intrusive Government, delve further into your life, and control it even further?

    They have places like that already, China, Mexico, most of Europe, Russia, and about 500+ more countries.
    If people don't like it here, why don't they move?
    Wrong. Texas has a provision in the law that if the person under 17 uses the gun in lawful defense of person or property there is no crime committed by the owner of the firearm.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  4. #34
    Ex Member Array Stan6406's Avatar
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    How about this
    I am a mental health professional and I HATE guns. How easy would it be for me to report you as unfit? And how hard would it be for you to get that reversed?

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan6406 View Post
    How about this
    I am a mental health professional and I HATE guns. How easy would it be for me to report you as unfit? And how hard would it be for you to get that reversed?
    Wouldn't the person have to come to you for assessment, or be refered to you by a court or other authority for assessment? Mental health professionals can't simply go around and evaluate whomever they wish to determine if they have mental health issues.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  6. #36
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Why not just leave it up to the caretaker/lawful guardian/parent of such mentally ill person?

    Why does the omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient gov't have to be involved at all?

    How did we ever manage without all this regulation? oh, sorry I meant common sense restrictions forgive me all over the place.

    Why can't people just be responsible for their own actions? Why is it always the fault of someone else?
    Sticks likes this.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Not really. Health insurance is not in the Constitution. The 2A is.
    There are different kinds of dictators. Agreeing with one wouldn't make them less of a dictator. Americans who's idea of freedom is taking away someone elses freedom are getting annoying. I care more about a persons right to choose based on the fact that they exist, not because of what's written on paper or when or where it was written.

  8. #38
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    Mental Health Evaluation? Yeah right! I can't imagine anything more unbiased than someone like Kathleen Sebelius or Eric Holder writing the rules on who is "fit" to own a gun.

    I can see the test now:

    Q: Did you vote for Obama
    A; No
    Thank you for your time sir -- you need to go see the guy in the brown shirt wearing the jack boots.

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    zacii,

    Because if it was up to the caregiver and they were the one who let the person gain access to the gun that was used in a crime, how would they charge and convict themselves? If there isn't a law on the books for one to break there can't be a punishment.

    Maybe there are some states that have such a law on the books, but I am not aware of them. I don't think there is any federal law.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Not a good idea that'll be effective, IMO.

    Voluntary question, yes. But a point of comparison, then, for any background checking.

    Of course, if so vaguely queried about "mental illness," it's hard to see the value. These days, it seems anyone can find a psychiatrist to label someone as having this or that "disorder" or "syndrome" irrespective of whether it's identifiable as such by a different psychiatrist or even made it into mainstream medicine. In short, as others have suggested, define mental "illness."

    One thing I hate is the arbitrary, moveable goalposts, as is the case with may-issue CHL based on a "good/sufficient reason." Likewise, "illness" is pretty darned vague. And there's no getting around the simple fact that someone's got to decide on that vagueness. In that sense, specifically, it's a slippery slope, since where does one person's opinion end when further distribution of guns is at issue? Particularly if that person's got a dog in the fight, an axe to grind, anti-gunner at heart.
    Farronwolf, I like the concept or direction you are trying to go, but I don't think it is a realistic thing to implement.
    Let's say the question was --- Has anyone in your household been diagnosed with schizophrenia? What does that mean
    really in terms of the future potential for violence?

    I had a cousin who likely was a paranoid schizophrenic--or so it was claimed by his close family members. He lived harmlessly well into his mid 80s. He became mildly and briefly famous for a role in a film, was given a laudatory obit by the society page editors of a major newsy , and he was the subject of a short story in which
    he was the wise man who prevented a suicide. Some saw him as mentally sick, and others saw him as highly creative and imaginative, and a very interesting person.
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  11. #41
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevePVB View Post
    Mental Health Evaluation? Yeah right! I can't imagine anything more unbiased than someone like Kathleen Sebelius or Eric Holder writing the rules on who is "fit" to own a gun.

    I can see the test now:

    Q: Did you vote for Obama
    A; No
    Thank you for your time sir -- you need to go see the guy in the brown shirt wearing the jack boots.
    Those laws on who is fit to own a gun are already on the books. If you read my original post, I am referring to people who can legally own a gun having a responsibility to keep it out of the hands of those who are unfit.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post

    Unfortunately, the mother whose firearms were used in the CT murders cannot be held accountable as she failed to secure her firearms from an alledgedly unstable son.
    Too much blaming the mother. For all any of us know she was killed trying to keep him from getting the guns. No one knows
    what happened in that house except maybe the investigators.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  13. #43
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Hopyard,

    Did your family make firearms available to this individual? I can only assume not. I don't have a problem with the individuals with the mental issues, they can't help it. I am simply throwing an idea out to place some responsibility on the firearm owners who might potentially cause another one of these tragedies by letting their guns be used against innocent people.

    If feasible, I would rather see something of this nature before we go down the path of banning certain weapons because they look a certain way. I don't really have a dog in the fight regarding the assault weapons, as I don't like the AR platform personally, but I certainly would hate to loose my lever guns, as much as those who love their AR's.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    How about this, instead.

    We make it mandatory that all able bodied citizens get training, and carry concealed handguns. After all, when the 2A was written, that was the intent. All male citizens over a certain age were to be armed, and proficient in the use of said arms. If you object, you need to pay a tax that goes toward supporting the police.
    Perhaps something like it.

    At best, I'd support a tax break for those taking appropriate training. The rest, those who'd refuse (or wouldn't otherwise be required) to take training would essentially be paying the tax. It would provide incentives to both acquire a CHL and acquire reasonable training. And it would avoid the whole morass of the 2A's interpretation over (unconstitutionally, IMO) legislating limitations on firearms/ammo.
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  15. #45
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Perhaps something like it.

    At best, I'd support a tax break for those taking appropriate training. The rest, those who'd refuse (or wouldn't otherwise be required) to take training would essentially be paying the tax. It would provide incentives to both acquire a CHL and acquire reasonable training. And it would avoid the whole morass of the 2A's interpretation over (unconstitutionally, IMO) legislating limitations on firearms/ammo.
    Hey, I am all for that. I would get business two ways, training for the CHL and then preparing the taxes to give them the break. Bring it on.

    Although a great idea, it doesn't stand a chance in hell of even becoming remotely acceptable.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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