More guns, more gun deaths - Page 2

More guns, more gun deaths

This is a discussion on More guns, more gun deaths within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by onacoma Factoid: In the US there are twice as many murders every year by drunk drivers than by handguns! Additionally, every years ...

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  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array brocktice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onacoma View Post
    Factoid:

    In the US there are twice as many murders every year by drunk drivers than by handguns! Additionally, every years there are more murders by drunk drivers than by firearms!

    Let band the weapon of choise for drunk drivers, i.e., the Cars and Trucks!

    We can still get drunk but we can kill by staggering our way home!
    I agree with you, but the primary use of a car is transportation. We tried banning alcohol, that didn't work so well. In fact I would argue that it may have significantly boosted the problem of gun deaths and crime in this country, along with our current War on Drugs, but I haven't researched that.

    The primary function of guns is death and destruction. I like this argument but it doesn't hold water.


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    You might want to read over this material. Your assumptions about the number of guns and the violence rate are incorrect.

    http://gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/...6_1_screen.pdf
    Actually, the OP is mostly correct because he is citing deaths caused by guns, not guns and how it influences violent crime. You are both correct. But if an anti says there are more gun deaths per capita in the US than most other countries, that is true.
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  3. #18
    Ex Member Array Piratesailor's Avatar
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    The chart is statistically irrelevant as it doesn't show population. Draw a straight line from zero to the US and you'll see very few outliers. Show me per capita numbers. The chart would then have all the countries clustered together.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
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    It seems that the issue is often cited as violence, OR gun deaths, OR Gun Violence. All are very different. I have seen stats that show less guns equal more violence, yet it isn't gun violence. So does one solution beget more problems? I think this is an avenue that need to be examined.
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  5. #20
    Distinguished Member Array brocktice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piratesailor View Post
    The chart is statistically irrelevant as it doesn't show population. Draw a straight line from zero to the US and you'll see very few outliers. Show me per capita numbers. The chart would then have all the countries clustered together.
    You're wrong, it's deaths per 100k people, guns per 100 people. That choice of numbers (100 or 100k vs 1) just makes it easier to plot, it doesn't affect the conclusions to be drawn It's scaled, and there's a strong linear correlation.

  6. #21
    Ex Member Array Piratesailor's Avatar
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    I just closed it but I'm not wrong. It death by amount of guns owned, not by total population.
    Last edited by Piratesailor; December 18th, 2012 at 12:35 PM. Reason: Typo

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
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    Correlation, good word. Does not prove causation, but is an indicator that needs to be assessed. May or may not prove the point one attempts to make.
    BigJon


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  8. #23
    Distinguished Member Array brocktice's Avatar
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    No, the horizontal axis is guns per 100 people, the vertical axis is gun deaths per 100k people. Both pieces of data are in the chart.

  9. #24
    Ex Member Array Piratesailor's Avatar
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    There is an old saying

    Statistics lie and liars statistic. Our government is a great example.

    Not directed at you OP, just an observation that anyone can come up with any statistic to make their point. I appreciate your efforts.

  10. #25
    Distinguished Member Array brocktice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJon10125 View Post
    Correlation, good word. Does not prove causation, but is an indicator that needs to be assessed. May or may not prove the point one attempts to make.
    I will be the first to point out that correlation is not causation, but it would be hard to make an argument that more guns per capita leads to fewer gun deaths per capita, based on that chart.

  11. #26
    Distinguished Member Array onacoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brocktice View Post
    The primary function of guns is death and destruction. I like this argument but it doesn't hold water.
    The PRIMARY function of a firearm is to be a tool of protection just like fire sprinklers are in a building! The firearm was developed as a defensive tool of protection against someone or group intent in doing you or your family harm!

    As for cars and truck, if we band them you can take public transportation! What give you the right to do harm with a vehicle or own a vehicle that can cause harm to my family!


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  12. #27
    Distinguished Member Array brocktice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onacoma View Post
    The PRIMARY function of a firearm is to be a tool of protection just like fire sprinklers are in a building! The firearm was developed as a defensive tool of protection against someone or group intent in doing you or your family harm!
    Protection... by death. Don't get me wrong. It's a protection I want to have and that I think we should continue to have.
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  13. #28
    Ex Member Array Piratesailor's Avatar
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    Even if it is statistically correct, my state alone has a larger population than most of those counties. It does not show population and that is very relevant. Unless it does then the data is flawed.
    Last edited by Piratesailor; December 18th, 2012 at 12:43 PM. Reason: Freaken iPad...

  14. #29
    Distinguished Member Array brocktice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piratesailor View Post
    Even if it is statistically correct, my state alone has a larger population an most of those counties. It does not show population and that is very relevant. Unless it does then the data is flawed.
    I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying. Can you please explain the flaw?

  15. #30
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    The flaw in the "gun violence" argument is where it is focused. The statistics that are important is not GUN violence, but violent crime. Guns are hand tools, and when they are around, them may be used. But if you are truly interested in statistics, consider total violent crime in the US compared to the UK or other countries. There can be no direct comparrisons, because no sittuations are exactly the same, but to focus purely on the gun crime statistic will create a false premise to any argument.

    It just goes to show you that most of the people complaining about gun violence are not actually concerned with the violence, they are concerned with the guns.

    And for a great statistical analysis and evaluation, read "More Guns, Less Crime" by John Lott.
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