UK vs. USA... Interesting...

This is a discussion on UK vs. USA... Interesting... within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I'm sure we're all familiar with how the UK always says that their gun ban law works. Well, here's some interesting information I've gleaned off ...

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Thread: UK vs. USA... Interesting...

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    Member Array soundwave's Avatar
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    UK vs. USA... Interesting...

    I'm sure we're all familiar with how the UK always says that their gun ban law works. Well, here's some interesting information I've gleaned off a few sites... The total population of the UK is about 60 million (reference), the USA about 298 million (reference). This means that the USA is about 4.96 times higher in population to the UK.

    Violent crime in the UK was 1,184,702. This is comprised of "violence against the person", "sexual offenses" and "robbery offenses" (reference). Violent crime in the USA was 1,367,009 contains the same types of crime reported (reference). The reported crimes are virtually the same if you take the time to read all the offenses contained in each section that "violent crime" is comprised of. In the statistical data shown by the UK it states that the reason there is a "break" (aka rather large increase) because new crimes were added to what was reported. These new crimes don't make the new data flawed, actually it puts it on par with the USA (besides the fact that these were "magically" enacted in 1998 after their gun ban in 1997).

    Now, here's the interesting part... Remember: The USA population is 4.96 times greater than the UK. Therefore, to make it comparable to the USA for comparison you need to multiply it by 4.96, making the comparative total for the UK about 58,76,121.92. Put more easily, the USA and UK totals are very, very close... It's a heck of a lot easier to say that the UK totals show that there are 5 violent crimes committed against each and every USA citizen. (Explanation: 4.96 -- the population difference, USA vs. UK -- rounded to 5. Given that the crime totals are close the the same for both countries, that makes it a 5:1 ratio of violent crimes to each person in the USA population.)

    Scary, huh? This pretty much shows that gun bans sure make a difference... Just in the really wrong direction.

    Cheers.

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    I'm on dial-up, so my response slow and limited, but if the statistics are correct and comparable, I shudder to think of what G. Soros, Hillary, Bloomberg and Cozine want for us.....................
    Richard

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Excellent work!

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Here is another way of looking at it. For the period reported the UK had 1 violent crime for every 51 people and the US had 1 violent crime for every 214 people. We know that there are more crimes than are reported, but based on a article P95Carry posted earlier this week it is possible that half of the violent crimes in the UK are not reported. If this is true then the totals are closer to 1 per 25 for the UK and 1 per 200 for the US. An individual in the UK is up to 8 times more likely to be the victim of a violent crime than a person in the US.

    That said, there are places in the US where the individual is almost as likely to be the victim of a violent crime as someone in the UK, Washington, DC comes to mind and Chicago isn't far behind. What is the significance of that? The gun laws are much the same in Washington, DC, Chicago, and the UK. Coincidence? I think not!
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    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    As much as I am down on the U.K. lately, specifically because of what I see going on there socio-politically and with regard to rights, I have to say that I suspect there must be islands of crime in the U.K. just like there are here. There must be bucolic, peaceful places where there is a very low incidence of crime, just like there are here.

    Overall, though, I tend to believe what I've been reading, that crime is spiraling upward in the U.K. And of course, if there has been anything but a downturn in crime since they banned handguns (which, what, were they a problem before they banned 'em?!) then I think it stands out as a big "someone better have an answer for how this happened"!

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    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    Hey Soundwave... I'm writin a paper about the 2nd Amendment and was looking for a good reference for the UK. Do you mind if I qoute you in it?
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    Member Array soundwave's Avatar
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    lol No problem, SixBravo. ;O)

    Cheers.

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    New Member Array BlackMax's Avatar
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    Nice work soundwave.

    I've also read that because of the strict gun laws in the UK, knife attacks and deaths are much higher in the UK than here in the US, although I don't have any statistics at my fingertips at the moment.
    Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
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    The point about ''islands of crime'' is certainly very valid, here and there.

    Trouble is in UK the poor folks have no redress or means of defence (legally). Parts of London, Manchester, Bristol, Birmingham, Liverpool, Glasgow etc - are areas where I'd say even angels fear to tread.

    Yes too - I suspect with the way the UK police are going, backing off on wanting anything to do with smaller crimes - almost for sure figures will be depressed due to lack of reporting or documenting. Within many so called ''petty'' crimes there can be violence.

    Pretty darned depressing altogether huh
    Chris - P95
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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Soundwave,

    I'd reposted your above info as a quote on another board I'm member of within a crime related thread.
    A response to as much came back as the following...

    One major problem with that, Janq:
    -way different crimes were recorded: The UK counts harassment, posession of a weapon, minor assault, assault on a constable etc. as violent crimes, the US doesn't (see definitions on the CRCSG website).

    Basically the UK figures count any punch that is thrown at a pub, while the US figures only count aggravated assaults.

    If you look at the individual crimes, the picture is a bit different:

    Murder rate:
    US: 0.043 per 1000
    UK: 0.014 per 1000
    Germany: 0.011 per 1000

    Rape:
    US: 0.30 per 1000
    UK: 0.14 per 1000
    Germany: 0.09 per 1000

    Assault:
    US: 7.57 per 1000
    UK: 7.46 per 1000
    Germany: 1.42 per 1000

    When it comes to violent crime, the US is pretty much peerless among 1st world nations.

    Source: UN Survey of Crime Trends via nationmaster.com
    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  12. #11
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
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    Hmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Soundwave,

    I'd reposted your above info as a quote on another board I'm member of within a crime related thread.
    A response to as much came back as the following...



    - Janq
    Well, I think we need to look at the source, the UN. Now, as someone with the perspective of having lived in both countries, let me state the following:

    1) The UK crime rate is not quite as rampant as the media might suggest, for the reaosns Janq quoted. However, it is definitely worse than here for things like vandalism, common assault and so on. The reason is the feeble punishment handed out to transgressors. I am less fearful of being punched, glassed in a bar fight or something like that here than I was there. I am also pretty confident that my car will be in the same condition I left it. I can't count how may times I had a car vandalised in the UK.

    2) The murder rate here is WAY higher. But, it is dropping in many places (other than some hotspots like Houston ). I am definitely more fearful of a potentially deadly attack here than I was in the UK.

    BUT, and this is an important 'but', once i factor in the odds of being able to defend myself here compared to the odds of being able to defend myself in the UK, then I would say the chances of a SUCCESSFUL deadly attack are lower for me here than they were in the UK.

    And, as the CCW ratio goes up, the murder rate goes down. In the UK, the trend is the opposite.

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