Most important reason to oppose a new AWB?

This is a discussion on Most important reason to oppose a new AWB? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I'm somewhat in the "all the above" camp except that I think the likelihood of "need" varies across those choices. My primary issue with the ...

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Thread: Most important reason to oppose a new AWB?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array KoriBustard's Avatar
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    I'm somewhat in the "all the above" camp except that I think the likelihood of "need" varies across those choices. My primary issue with the poll question is the word "need." I should not have to have an expressed "need" but rather I have a constitution right to own a firearm that provides me and my family with adequate protection against all of those risks and threats.
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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 38special View Post
    Second, your right to keep and bear arms does, in fact, come from the government via the Constitution.
    Untrue. The rights were specifically identified as inborn in each person, preexisting, and that the Constitution (at least the BOR) merely PROTECTED the existence of these things. The Declaration proclaimed the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as the key reasons for going down the path of taking control of their own destinies. The rights spoken of are, most specifically the ones mentioned in the BOR, ones the People already have, rights reserved to the people. Whether one believes they came from a "higher" power, the Fates or the Tooth Fairie, preexisting they were.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; December 20th, 2012 at 01:05 AM.
    1MoreGoodGuy, zacii and Pistology like this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  4. #33
    Senior Member Array KoriBustard's Avatar
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    I missed 1moregoodguy's comment...so I'll say, "yeah, what he said."
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  5. #34
    Senior Member Array cn262's Avatar
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    I just ran across this Chuck Woolery video (I had never heard of him before). It is amusing at times, but the points made are very valid. Worth 5 minutes to view. Chuck Woolery on Assault Weapons - YouTube

  6. #35
    Member Array 38special's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Untrue. The rights were specifically identified as inborn in each person, preexisting, and that the Constitution merely PROTECTED the existence of these things. The Declaration proclaimed the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as the key reasons for going down the path of taking control of their own destinies. The rights spoken of are, most specifically the ones mentioned in the BOR, ones the People already have, rights reserved to the people. Whether one believes they came from a "higher" power, the Fates or the Tooth Fairie, preexisting they were.
    Nobody is born with any rights beyond what their government gives them. If owning firearms was a "natural born right" then other countries would not be able to have the restrictions they have. The right to keep and bear arms may have been considered preexisting, but it was considered preexisting by men...specifically the men that created our government. If the government no longer wishes you to have guns then laws will be created to prevent you from having them. We already have firearm restrictions which, in my opinion, constitute infringements. Always remember that our Constitution is not set in stone; it can most certainly be rewritten or reamended and our current administration would, in my opinion, have no issues with doing so.

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    And this is what we're up against, as a People.

    Quote Originally Posted by 38special View Post
    Nobody is born with any rights beyond what their government gives them.
    You should re-read the founding documents, arguments, ratification discussions. They can be enlightening.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  8. #37
    Senior Member Array zamboni's Avatar
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    I couldn't vote because there isn't a choice of "OTHER" or 'ALL OF THE ABOVE"

    I don't own one but have been saving for one for about 8-months. They have become very popular with hunting in my area. My buddies keep telling me I need to catch up with these modern-hunting times. I'm a bit short yet and now, with the feeding frenzy and price gouging taking effect. Barring a winning lotto ticket, it doesn't seem likely anytime soon.

    I wounder why they keep mentioning clips, and alluding to their calling them a magazine

    They also keep calling the AR's Assault Rifles and not ArmaLite Rifles?

    Tried to go on Buds and they are offline? What was it Bob Dylan sang: "the times they are ah changin....
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  9. #38
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    My reason is because I wanted one. I would have accepted because it is my right to have one. Neither of those being an option, I cannot vote.

    (And whoever said it is a personal interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, it doesn't take a rocket scientist or an attorney to interpret SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.)
    Crowman and revldm like this.
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  10. #39
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    While this might not be a #1 reason.... How about the same reason we "supposedly" have the Department of Homeland Security, terrorists.

    Also no one has to give any reason since it is our right... Nuff said..
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  11. #40
    Senior Member Array zamboni's Avatar
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    Well this is going to become the norm now I guess. Seems dealers like Buds, CTD, Dicks, some-etc are all going to buckle under.

    And either post on their websites:
    Due to current market conditions, please CONTACT US FOR IN STORE PRICING & AVAILABILITY *Not all products shown are in stock

    OR:
    They will be offline for a while while they re-design and adjust their websites.

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array 1MoreGoodGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 38special View Post
    I agree that you don't, and shouldn't, "need" a reason to keep and bear arms. However, I would disagree about where your rights come from. First, as a die hard atheist, I completely reject the acceptance of a "higher power." Second, your right to keep and bear arms does, in fact, come from the government via the Constitution. Since you live in the United States you are subject to the constitutional interpretations set forth by the Supreme Court. You may want to strongly reconsider the need for a reason to have a semi-automatic rifle because, after Sandy Hook, the vocal liberal minority is going to kick and scream until restrictions are placed on the Second Amendment. The only way to possibly stop that from happening is to present well-rounded, intelligent opposition.
    The Constitution limits the power of the government.

    The government shall not infringe upon the 2nd Amendment.

    The Preamble to The Bill of Rights

    Congress of the United States
    begun and held at the City of New-York, on
    Wednesday the fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.

    THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.

    RESOLVED by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two thirds of both Houses concurring, that the following Articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as amendments to the Constitution of the United States, all, or any of which Articles, when ratified by three fourths of the said Legislatures, to be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution; viz.

    ARTICLES in addition to, and Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America, proposed by Congress, and ratified by the Legislatures of the several States, pursuant to the fifth Article of the original Constitution.
    Amendment II

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
    Amendment X

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
    I said, "My Rights come from a higher power." The 2nd Amendment clearly states that it "shall not be infringed". This limits the power the government has over the Right all the way to the point of it does not have any power over the Right what so ever. The government has no authority to infringe upon it. Rights don't come from the government. Therefore, how ever I got this Right we know it must of came from a power that had the authority to tell the government that it shall not infringe upon this Right. That means the Right came from a power that is higher than the government or more simply put, a higher power.

    If you "completely reject the acceptance of a higher power", then how can you believe that your Right comes from the government? If the government is issuing you your Right, then you are accepting that the government is a higher power than you because it has the authority to give and take away Rights, which would mean that the Right does not belong to you because you don't have the power to give the Right to yourself...You don't have the authority. The government would have an authority that you don't have, which would make the government a "higher power" than you. A "Right" by definition is something that a person is guaranteed to have. If you are guaranteed to have something, the government can't take it away. If the government could take the Right away, there is no way that the Right could be guaranteed to you because you would no longer have it. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
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  13. #42
    VIP Member Array 1MoreGoodGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 38special View Post
    Nobody is born with any rights beyond what their government gives them. If owning firearms was a "natural born right" then other countries would not be able to have the restrictions they have. The right to keep and bear arms may have been considered preexisting, but it was considered preexisting by men...specifically the men that created our government. If the government no longer wishes you to have guns then laws will be created to prevent you from having them. We already have firearm restrictions which, in my opinion, constitute infringements. Always remember that our Constitution is not set in stone; it can most certainly be rewritten or reamended and our current administration would, in my opinion, have no issues with doing so.
    You are misinformed.
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  14. #43
    Member Array 38special's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1MoreGoodGuy View Post
    The Constitution limits the power of the government.

    The government shall not infringe upon the 2nd Amendment.







    I said, "My Rights come from a higher power." The 2nd Amendment clearly states that it "shall not be infringed". This limits the power the government has over the Right all the way to the point of it does not have any power over the Right what so ever. The government has no authority to infringe upon it. Rights don't come from the government. Therefore, how ever I got this Right we know it must of came from a power that had the authority to tell the government that it shall not infringe upon this Right. That means the Right came from a power that is higher than the government or more simply put, a higher power.

    If you "completely reject the acceptance of a higher power", then how can you believe that your Right comes from the government? If the government is issuing you your Right, then you are accepting that the government is a higher power than you because it has the authority to give and take away Rights, which would mean that the Right does not belong to you because you don't have the power to give the Right to yourself...You don't have the authority. The government would have an authority that you don't have, which would make the government a "higher power" than you. A "Right" by definition is something that a person is guaranteed to have. If you are guaranteed to have something, the government can't take it away. If the government could take the Right away, there is no way that the Right could be guaranteed to you because you would no longer have it. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
    If you lived in a country which prohibited private gun ownership then you would not have the right to bear arms...therefore, gun ownership is not a fundamental, "God given" human right. The United States currently recognized private gun ownership and permits you to keep and bear arms. However, the United States also limits your right. You cannot carry concealed without a permit, you cannot carry in federal buildings, you cannot purchase newly manufactured automatic weapons, you must apply for additional permission to own short barrel lengths, etc. The Supreme Court is free to interpret "infringement" the way THEY see fit, not the way you see, not the way your father sees it, not the way your neighbor sees it, and not the way I see it. Your right to bear arms exists at the pleasure of the government. We've already had an "assault weapon" ban and there will probably be another. Like I've said, the Second Amendment is not set in stone. A new amendment can be created, the Second Amendment can be re-amended, and the whole Constitution can be rewritten. I am 100% pro gun, but there are many powerful, vocal opposers and if we continue with the childish "because it's my right" arguments then we will lose and the Second Amendment will disappear.

  15. #44
    Member Array 38special's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    the founding documents, arguments, ratification discussions
    were created by the government and can be "uncreated" with enough passing votes. If the Second Amendment is repealed then the government will take your guns and prevent gun ownership. If you refuse then you will be imprisoned. If you fight back then you will be killed...they have tanks, ships, jets, bombed, etc. and they will win.

    Women have not always had the right to vote. Blacks have not always had freedom. Those rights were given to them, not by birth, but at the pleasure of the government...just as gun ownership.

  16. #45
    Senior Member Array xsigma40cal's Avatar
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    C'mon, really? CHUCK WOOLERY...LOVE CONNECTION....That awful eighties show that set people with bad haircuts up on date with other people with bad hair cuts? UUuuugh, kids today.
    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools.--->Herbert Spencer

    Springfield xd 45, Sig Sauer SP2022(9mm),Remington 700(.308), Yugo M10 variant w/IZH Kobra optic,...and lots of ammo for all of 'em.

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