Conversation This Evening - Page 2

Conversation This Evening

This is a discussion on Conversation This Evening within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Cold Shot This is an especially good point, in my opinion. It's something that just spilled out...I had not consciously even thought ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    This is an especially good point, in my opinion.
    It's something that just spilled out...I had not consciously even thought of that before it came out, and when it did I was quite proud of it myself. Perhaps it was the product of 4 days of intraspect and contemplation...either that or a lot of Hendrix I listened to this week while painting my 62 Volkswagen with flowers and peace signs. In any event, I'm glad it struck a chord.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


  2. #17
    Member Array Domr's Avatar
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    Standing ovation..really well thought out

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    It's something that just spilled out...I had not consciously even thought of that before it came out, and when it did I was quite proud of it myself. Perhaps it was the product of 4 days of intraspect and contemplation...either that or a lot of Hendrix I listened to this week while painting my 62 Volkswagen with flowers and peace signs. In any event, I'm glad it struck a chord.
    It's like they don't realize that the world happens to be a scary place. People are constantly trying to kill other people. America has grown so soft it's frightening. Pretty much everybody lives an extremely pleasant life with no real threat of violence, and these sissies go nuts when they see it, and then they want big brother to give them some false sense of security.
    Last edited by RETSUPT99; December 20th, 2012 at 10:23 PM. Reason: Language Violation
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  4. #19
    Member Array mg27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    I've remained very quiet and listened intently at work over the last week. I have resisted the urge to say anything even though I have heard so much misinformation. This evening, over a drink with several co-workers, I broke my silence.

    The subject came up, they were rambling on about banning this and that, why, what, etc. and one of them asked me what I thought. I replied, "It doesn't really matter" but they insisted. So, I calmly and professionally said, "So much debate about what to ban, how much, why, what it looks like, more checks, etc. In the end, what a gun looks like or how much it holds, or more checks would not have changed a thing. CT has some of the strictest gun laws already. Not legal to own unless 21, this guy was 20. He killed and stole guns. No amount of checks would have changed that. I do find fault in his mother not securing her weapons. To me, that is a responsibility that everyone should take seriously. Outside of that, 30 round clip or 10 round, if no one is firing back it doesn't matter if you have to reload one time or three. So called assault weapons do the same thing as revolvers and shotguns. Pull the trigger once, one bullet comes out. Pull it again, another comes out. That doesn't make the person on the other end any more or less dead."

    At this point, someone asked, "But why does anyone need a semi-automatic weapon?" I said, "Why does anyone need alcohol like we are drinking now or a car that goes 100 MPH?" Every six weeks the same number of kids are killed at the hands of drunk drivers as were in CT. Every six weeks, week after week, year after year. Yet no one dare suggest banning alcohol or cars. They are willing to accept that risk and death toll to have that freedom. Mankind existed thousands of years on this earth without cars, he could do so again."

    I then said, "If the President was serious about making meaningful change, he would personally lead the charge and he would invite the NRA to the table. If we want to really make a difference, let me ask you a question. As a society, how do we protect our money? Armed security. How do we protect our Politicians? Armed security. Why should or kids in our schools be any different? They choose schools because they know there will be no armed resistance. And when it does show up, they off themselves. Harden up our school grounds and buildings and require by law armed security on the premesis. That's the only thing that has any chance of effectively changing these events. If armed security is good enough for the President and the other anti-gun politicians, then why are they against it for our kids? You don't send a fireman to a fire without a hose or extinguisher. If you did, all he could do is stand there and say 'what a shame.' Evil exists in this world and we can't legislate it out of existence. Pretending it won't come in a school because we have banned black rifles and long magazines is crazy. If we are going to invest the time, effort, and energy to go down this road, let's make the trip worth it."

    By the end of the conversation, it was like the group had seen the light. I'm not saying they were suddenly pro-gun, but they seemed to truly understand the reality of the situation and why the same old song and dance just can't work.

    5 down, 150 Million to go.
    Nice! Makes perfect sense and we owe it to the kids to be honest with ourselves or atleast the govt does, and as you said banning the black rifle would not have or will ever stop another crazy person from doing homicide again.. Armed guards I'd prefer as well, I'd rather see them conceal so they are not targets and have some element of surprise, and have some in the security room monitoring cameras.

    There are far greater ways to protect kids. And ban Gun free zones for Gods sake, they only work against the law abiding people..
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  5. #20
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    I like it. I think a lot more ground can be gained by being calm and patient and waiting until people want to hear your thoughts. Then make points and ask them questions that make them think.
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    The stupidity of some people NEVER ceases to amaze me.

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  6. #21
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miller_man View Post
    I like it. I think a lot more ground can be gained by being calm and patient and waiting until people want to hear your thoughts. Then make points and ask them questions that make them think.
    The best way to guarantee your spouse will hang on your every word is not to yell and scream but to talk quietly in your sleep.
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  7. #22
    VIP Member Array Doghandler's Avatar
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    Re: Conversation This Evening

    I like the idea of bringing the NRA to the table. I like the idea of an armed, polite, formal and well disciplined society. Remember, though, that when sitting at these tables you must come with something you are willing to give up.


    ...
    The problem with the world is grown-ups behaving like unsupervised children.
    There is a solution but we are not Jedi... not yet.
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  8. #23
    Senior Member Array mwhartman's Avatar
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    Big Dude, here are some additional facts to add to you speech:


    As quoted by the CDC CDC - Impaired Driving Facts - Motor Vehicle Safety - Injury Center "Every day, almost 30 people in the United States die in motor vehicle crashes that involve an alcohol-impaired driver. This amounts to one death every 48 minutes. The annual cost of alcohol-related crashes totals more than $51 billion.


    In 2010, 10,228 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (31%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.1
    Of the 1,210 traffic deaths among children ages 0 to 14 years in 2010, 211 (17%) involved an alcohol-impaired driver.

    Of the 211 child passengers ages 14 and younger who died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes in 2010, over half (131) were riding in the vehicle with the alcohol-impaired driver.

    In 2010, over 1.4 million drivers were arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol or narcotics.3 That's one percent of the 112 million self-reported episodes of alcohol-impaired driving among U.S. adults each year.4
    Drugs other than alcohol (e.g., marijuana and cocaine) are involved in about 18% of motor vehicle driver deaths. These other drugs are often used in combination with alcohol.5

    Every week young children are killed by drunk drivers yet no one dares to suggest banning alcohol or cars. They are willing to accept that risk and death toll to have that freedom.

    As quoted on Alcoholalert.com Drunk driving statistics
    "In 2009, a total of 1,314 children age 14 and younger were killed in motor vehicle traffic crashes. Of those 1,314 fatalities, 181 (14%) occurred in alcohol-impaired driving crashes. Out of those 181 deaths, 92 (51%) were occupants of a vehicle with a driver who had a BAC level of .08 or higher, and another 27 children (15%) were pedestrians or pedalcyclists struck by drivers with a BAC of .08 or higher."

    I guess the media will not report because they may loose their right to drink & drive!
    Praise the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle --- Psalm 144

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  9. #24
    Member Array GunsAndViolince's Avatar
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    Righteous, BugDude. Righteous. Great points for the conversations we will all be having in the coming months (if not years).

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    It's something that just spilled out...I had not consciously even thought of that before it came out, and when it did I was quite proud of it myself. Perhaps it was the product of 4 days of intraspect and contemplation...either that or a lot of Hendrix I listened to this week while painting my 62 Volkswagen with flowers and peace signs. In any event, I'm glad it struck a chord.
    similar to a post I made in a thread about CT & gun control, I will respect those calling for bans, when they give up their armed security.
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    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

  11. #26
    Senior Member Array sensei2's Avatar
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    dear BugDude: a VERY nice response, IMO. and great that some middle-of-the-road folks heard an eloquent defense of our position. you may even have converted someone over to our POV. it is these folks in the center, most of whom have heard only what the anti-gun mainstream media has told them, that we need to reach out to. good job!

    i'm glad your audience didn't include a dyed-in-the-wool anti-gun person. it's SO tiring to listen to such people. they just HATE that ordinary citizens can be armed, and they will NOT listen to any rational argument. the last time i countered such a person - she inserted herself into a conversation i was having with someone else by announcing, "i don't like guns" - i just looked at her and said, "i disagree", and resumed my original conversation. she left.



    joke: not sure how i feel about your avatar, though. i was nearly seriously hurt/killed when the door of the VW micro-bus i was riding in, flew open when the driver made a left-hand turn. luckily, this van had seat belts and i was belted in. (this was in the 60's or early 70's) :-)

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    I've got a 62 VW Bug and a 63 VW Bug, both sliding sunroof cars. I was on the verge of buying a 64 bus out of Colorado when I landed the Florida job and had to move quickly, so I cancelled the deal. I'm still kicking myself. I keep this avatar in hopes of fulfilling that desire one day.

    When Driving a Volkswagen, you do so in the knowledge that there are no side frame rails, the worst crash rating in history, and a 10 gallon gas tank sitting in your lap. If you hit something, you better hope you hit it hard enough that it is over quickly.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.

  13. #28
    Senior Member Array BkCo1's Avatar
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    That was a very good reply to them and very good examples. Well done
    Semper Fi
    "Marines don't surrender-they win or die." from Brute

  14. #29
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    Well done. Often we see hear or become heated discussing these things and it is much easier for people to absorb if you do as you did with facts and remaining calm. I have people constantly looking to fight about it and I went from politely informing the misguided souls to ignoring them as facts and logic were not what they wanted. Good on your coworkers for listening and being thoughtful. I believe if more people thought instead of reacting many more would understand things better.

    Keep up the good work!
    miller_man likes this.
    BigJon


    "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" ~ Mark Twain

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