Armes Guards in Schools? What's next

This is a discussion on Armes Guards in Schools? What's next within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; You can't expect "good parenting" to be retro-active. Good parenting started now, won't be apparent for several years. The best, immediate fix, I'd have to ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array usmcj's Avatar
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    You can't expect "good parenting" to be retro-active. Good parenting started now, won't be apparent for several years. The best, immediate fix, I'd have to say is to arm teachers, school officials, or put security folks in schools. As has been said many times, guns protect elected officials, our money, our shopping centers, our sporting events, our air travel, why not our children?
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    I certainly agree with part of this statement and much that follows. However, there are some people that are just "messed up in the head." No amount of of positive reinforcement, love, and attention will stop them from carrying out evil acts, and sometimes there are no warning signs as a precursor. These are the people from whom we need to protect ourselves and our loved ones, and that the government needs to enable the public to protect itself (read: get rid of some no-gun zones, or allow certain parties to be armed).
    In short - stuff happens. So why is it we can't accept that little fact instead of going bat poo crazy about it?

    I don't disagree with the logic that you and others have posted about arming teachers. Armed guards in school? 1 per classroom (cause that is what it is going to take)? Who is going to fund that expense? We already have an underfunded public educational system.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  4. #18
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    Let me restate......I'm in favor of a LEO having a small office and desk at school.......not arming any Teachers.....no thanks.

    IMO, nothin more dangerous than a LWL with a gun.

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    In short - stuff happens. So why is it we can't accept that little fact instead of going bat poo crazy about it?

    I don't disagree with the logic that you and others have posted about arming teachers. Armed guards in school? 1 per classroom (cause that is what it is going to take)? Who is going to fund that expense? We already have an underfunded public educational system.
    Yes, the cost is a factor. One option is to allow teachers and administrators to be armed. Often it is not the actual fact that people are armed that deter crimes, but the possibility that they are. Case in point - "hot" burglary rates in the US v. the UK.

    An Englishman's home is his dungeon - Telegraph

    A hot burglary is one in which the homeowner is present when the burglary happens. According to the article, in the US it's 10%, but in portions of the UK it's approaching 50%. One reason may be that in the US there's a good chance you'll get your head ventilated if you barge into someone's home when they are there, while in the UK there's almost no chance of that happening.

    I know that correlation does not prove causation, but even in the mind of these demented killers there is some rational calculus. Most take their lives when confronted with force. So at some level they are avoiding forceful responses, and looking for "soft" targets. Let's get rid of the certainty of a target being "soft."
    Last edited by PEF; December 22nd, 2012 at 09:13 AM. Reason: added article link

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad426 View Post
    Your argument is odd and disjointed. All I said was come up with solutions that actually make our children safe (as opposed to a feel-good, do-little-to-change-things AW/HCM ban). Your solution of "fix the parenting", while possible right, would be about as effective as banning 30-round magazines in doing anything to stop school shootings.
    Your answer is in my first and fourth paragraph.

    Step back and look at the big picture, not what happened in one town in one day.

    Let me try this route - We have already done more than enough, and I loath this phrase, to keep the children safe. We have gone to great lengths to make airplane travel safe, but they still crash. We have vehicles that all but encase the occupants in bubble wrap, but they still get killed in accidents.

    It is impossible to proactively attack every single possibility. When you are dealing with a person with some semblance of thought process, who is intent on doing a thing, they will find a way to carryout that thing regardless of the obstacles we put in their path.

    335 million people in this country and we are in an uproar because one or two of them dose something this evil maybe once a year. I'd say we are pretty damn fortunate given the American condition.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  7. #21
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    Sticks, below is something I posted in a different thread about finances.
    Also. I don't believe we need "visual" armed guards in our school. A few teachers who are willing to CC could be all it takes. Knowing someone could have a CW may be enough of a deterent. These nuts go to places like this because they know nothing is there.

    ]We send millions of dollars to other countries so they can rebuild and "defend" themelves. But when we want to protect our own people with extra officers to protect our children in it is financial burden. Who cares about our children more? Honest, hardworking citizens who CCW and are willing to protect themselves and others around them or our government. I think it is pretty obvious.

  8. #22
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    I agree that "parenting" is important, but not just by itself. This is complex and needs a multi-pronged approach.

    It's true 5 schools out of 142,000 is certainly low statistics, though not excuseable enough to do nothing. Considering the miles traveled airline crashes would be statistically low too, but I don't want them to drop safety or maintenance concerns to save money.

    An approach right now of some sort of armed presence at the schools is important. If we continue to have school shootings we will continue to have our 2A rights rapidly eroded. I firmly believe this.

    Speaking of parenting, you'll never get 100% of the parents to do a very good job at parenting, some parents will do a poor job. Consequently I believe we'll always have (somewhere) some at-risk kid capable of carrying out a school shooting.
    Brad426 and Darrow75 like this.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MACC12 View Post
    Sticks, below is something I posted in a different thread about finances.
    Also. I don't believe we need "visual" armed guards in our school. A few teachers who are willing to CC could be all it takes. Knowing someone could have a CW may be enough of a deterent. These nuts go to places like this because they know nothing is there.

    ]We send millions of dollars to other countries so they can rebuild and "defend" themelves. But when we want to protect our own people with extra officers to protect our children in it is financial burden. Who cares about our children more? Honest, hardworking citizens who CCW and are willing to protect themselves and others around them or our government. I think it is pretty obvious.
    I'm right there with you. Problem is that the USA will not close the bank, and tell the UN to get bent, let alone start charging them for us to "Police the world". An absolutely frightening amount of money and lives, is consumed daily by a fight we picked long before Obama took office (oops, another fact people forgot) and is obligated to finish. If we can get through the next 4 years without involving our military in yet another 3rd world countries issues (in the name of American Interests) I'll be surprised.

    Like I keep saying in numerous threads - This country's Govt has bigger issues to deal with than addressing what just happened.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  10. #24
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    Absolutely

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ppkheat View Post
    I agree that "parenting" is important, but not just by itself. This is complex and needs a multi-pronged approach.

    It's true 5 schools out of 142,000 is certainly low statistics, though not excuseable enough to do nothing. Considering the miles traveled airline crashes would be statistically low too, but I don't want them to drop safety or maintenance concerns to save money.
    I'm not saying do nothing, I'm saying we've done more than enough. Can more be done - hell yes, but the politicians are not having any even remote consideration for our solutions. So that leaves us with A: It may not be excusable, but is acceptable (because the odds are higher that your kid is going to be killed in a traffic accident instead of being shot at school) and do nothing, and I mean nothing. No new laws, no bans, no restrictions or any other legislation.

    B: Give up your 2a rights for the safety of your children.

    Think long and hard on that one. People have died for 238 years to grant us, and keep these rights and freedoms. You and I know very well that once the 2a is gone, the flood gates will be open to more rights and freedoms being taken away.

    An approach right now of some sort of armed presence at the schools is important. If we continue to have school shootings we will continue to have our 2A rights rapidly eroded. I firmly believe this.
    See above, the politicians are having none of this.

    Speaking of parenting, you'll never get 100% of the parents to do a very good job at parenting, some parents will do a poor job. Consequently I believe we'll always have (somewhere) some at-risk kid capable of carrying out a school shooting.
    That has been the case since the dawn of man. We seriously need to get back to the methods used to raise children 50 years ago.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  12. #26
    Member Array gooseman1991's Avatar
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    I would feel better with armed guards everywhere but I'm not under any false illusion that it is a magic wand that will fix all. Merely a piece of duct tape to help hold things together.

    Goose
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