Armes Guards in Schools? What's next

This is a discussion on Armes Guards in Schools? What's next within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; In responding to another post, something occurred to me. If armed guards are shown to be effective in schools, how about the malls, movie theaters, ...

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    Senior Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    Armes Guards in Schools? What's next

    In responding to another post, something occurred to me.

    If armed guards are shown to be effective in schools, how about the malls, movie theaters, sporting events, large retail stores or just about anywhere there are large numbers of people gathering?

    Detroit neighborhoods have private armed security now patrolling. It looks like a military base in there.

    Before we all know it, the powers that be decide Joe Q. Public has no need to carry in most places and places a prohibition on carrying in many, many places.

    Cradle to grave coverage: We the gov will protect you. Hmmmm?

    Sounds like a possibly dangerous path to be exploited by the far left ultimately bearing a striking resemblance to a police state?
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

    Do what you can; then do what you must

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    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Baby steps. Step 1: come up with solutions to actually keep our children safe. Step 2: Whatever comes next.
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    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
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    Senior Member Array Kimberpackn's Avatar
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    My friend, the current administration has already decided that Joe Q Public has no need to carry a gun or have access to semi auto weapons of any kind. Now their just trying to figure out how to take them from us.
    We should not forget that the spark which ignited the American Revolution was caused by the British attempt to confiscate the firearms of the colonists. -

    Patrick Henry

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    Senior Member Array KBSR's Avatar
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    Our government can't figure out squat, and will never be able to take our guns away, because it's contrary to the will of the majority of the people.

    Armed security, whether it's law enforcement, military, or parent/teacher security in our schools is long overdue. We already have it in our large sporting venues (post 9-11). Soft targets like malls & theaters need it as well. Anywhere large groups of innocents i.e. sheep gather, there must be a plan of action to deal with evil.

    More good guys with guns, will equate to less opportunity for mass casualties. I'm not the least bit concerned about a police state.
    " But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... Baa." Col. Dave Grossman on Sheep and Sheepdogs.

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad426 View Post
    Baby steps. Step 1: come up with solutions to actually keep our children safe. Step 2: Whatever comes next.


    Root cause of the problem right there. Looking to the Govt to do something the parents should be doing. Keeping their children safe, and making sure that their children do not turn into another Harris, Klebold, Holmes, McVeigh, Lanza, Cho, Roberts...

    All the signs were there, but the parents did nothing - genetically blind to the shortcomings of their offspring.
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    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    Our schools have had School Resource Officers for quite a few years. He is essentially a local policeman who is assigned to one school, that way he knows the kids/layout, etc. Other than an occasional fight or minor drug bust that's all I've ever heard around here. I'd like to think their presence has prevented something worse.

    When I was a kid, our principal (former Marine) and the coaches "were the security", they just weren't armed. If some kids got into a fight, somehow the coaches mysteriously appeared and took care of it.
    Last edited by ppkheat; December 22nd, 2012 at 09:09 AM.
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    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBSR View Post
    Our government can't figure out squat, and will never be able to take our guns away, because it's contrary to the will of the majority of the people.
    When has that ever mattered? The will of the people put them in office to do whatever the heck they feel like doing. This is not going to go to a national vote. This is going to be done in house, agreed - against the will of the majority. Guess what, we can't fire them, suspend them for a week, or anything else but not vote for them again in the next election. Big whoop. 1 term, lifetime benefits and retirement in trade for a royal screwing of their constituents.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    Quote Originally Posted by ppkheat View Post
    Our schools have had School Resource Officers for quite a few years. He is essentially a local policeman who is assigned to one school, that we he knows the kids/layout, etc. Other than an occasional fight or minor drug bust that's all I've ever heard around here. I'd like to think their presence has prevented something worse.

    When I was a kid, our principal (former Marine) and the coaches "were the security", they just weren't armed. If some kids got into a fight, somehow the coaches mysteriously appeared and took care of it.
    There are over 142k schools (K-12, private, charter, and higher ed) in this country We've had, what 5 (I have no idea) actual mass shootings at a school in the last 20 years?. The odds of a major incident happening at your school are astronomical. Slightly lower if you are in a large metropolitan area, slightly higher if you are rural for pointedly obvious reasons.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post


    Root cause of the problem right there. Looking to the Govt to do something the parents should be doing. Keeping their children safe, and making sure that their children do not turn into another Harris, Klebold, Holmes, McVeigh, Lanza, Cho, Roberts...

    All the signs were there, but the parents did nothing - genetically blind to the shortcomings of their offspring.
    I'm not sure if you're banging your head at me, but where exactly did I say anything about looking to the government to do anything? I said "Come up with solutions to actually keep our children safe."
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
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    In my town we have LE in the High School for years especially promoting the DARE program and I'm all for it......they're armed, what's the difference......better them than another SH incident. An if one should occur and the security take care of it before any escalation ....Good For Them.....it will only show that an Armed Good Guy can protect you from an armed Bad Guy.....as Wayne stated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post


    Root cause of the problem right there. Looking to the Govt to do something the parents should be doing. Keeping their children safe, and making sure that their children do not turn into another Harris, Klebold, Holmes, McVeigh, Lanza, Cho, Roberts...

    All the signs were there, but the parents did nothing - genetically blind to the shortcomings of their offspring.
    Hmm. I didn't read the post as supporting the abdication of personal responsibility to the government. I read it as endorsing the enablement of additional layers of protection for the public.

    As for the mother in this case, I don't know of the facts that were there to indicate the son was going to mass murder children. I think the woman is being villified. On a news program yesterday they spoke of her as if she lead a "secret gun-culture nut" life, having an "arsenal" at home. The woman had just five guns. Big deal. As for her son, the news reports I have read is that she was trying to get help. If you have facts that support the assertion that she was willfully blind to her son's situation, please provide them. It's easy to blame others, but I think the blame here rests with the killer, and not one of his victims.

    There's always hindsight. Violent video games, withdrawn, quiet, bullied. Well, that's about 40% of male teens nowadays, and the vast majority of them are normal and will grow up to live normal lives.

    If I could invent a hindsight lens that was forward looking, I'd be able to retire.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad426 View Post
    I'm not sure if you're banging your head at me, but where exactly did I say anything about looking to the government to do anything? I said "Come up with solutions to actually keep our children safe."
    Who do you propose to come up with and implement such solutions? You, me, and every other citizen already have the solution, and it is not more or less guns, it's parenting.

    Last I checked the difference between right and wrong, proper moral values, respect and tolerance were not part of the institutionalized education curriculum. they go to school to learn how to read, write, add & subtract, history and a little science.

    In order for the solution to work, it has to start now, and in maybe 40 years, the problem will be solved.

    Now if you are looking for a stopgap in the meantime - the children are already safe. Too safe in the grand scheme of things. No survival instincts allowed to flourish. They are given helmets in case they fall - no tuck and roll skills. Everything is sanitized - no immune system. They are over protected so much that they don't learn what the consequences of their actions are going to be.

    What sickens me is 20 in one day is unacceptable, but 25 per year nationally that are killed in school (K-12) sponsored events (sports) going to and from school, and other activities at school is perfectly fine. Guess what - add those numbers up and more children die at school every decade that way than from these isolated shooting incidents.

    So tell me, are we as a nation focusing on the right thing right now?
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Who do you propose to come up with and implement such solutions? You, me, and every other citizen already have the solution, and it is not more or less guns, it's parenting.

    Last I checked the difference between right and wrong, proper moral values, respect and tolerance were not part of the institutionalized education curriculum.

    In order for the solution to work, it has to start now, and in maybe 40 years, the problem will be solved.

    Now if you are looking for a stopgap in the meantime - the children are already safe. Too safe in the grand scheme of things. No survival instincts allowed to flourish. They are given helmets in case they fall - no tuck and roll skills. Everything is sanitized - no immune system. They are over protected so much that they don't learn what the consequences of their actions are going to be.

    What sickens me is 20 in one day is unacceptable, but 25 per year nationally that are killed in school (K-12) sponsored events (sports) going to and from school, and other activities at school is perfectly fine. Guess what - add those numbers up and more children die at school every decade that way than from these isolated shooting incidents.

    So tell me, are we as a nation focusing on the right thing right now?
    Your argument is odd and disjointed. All I said was come up with solutions that actually make our children safe (as opposed to a feel-good, do-little-to-change-things AW/HCM ban). Your solution of "fix the parenting", while possible right, would be about as effective as banning 30-round magazines in doing anything to stop school shootings.
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Who do you propose to come up with and implement such solutions? You, me, and every other citizen already have the solution, and it is not more or less guns, it's parenting.

    <snip for brevity>

    So tell me, are we as a nation focusing on the right thing right now?
    I certainly agree with part of this statement and much that follows. However, there are some people that are just "messed up in the head." No amount of of positive reinforcement, love, and attention will stop them from carrying out evil acts, and sometimes there are no warning signs as a precursor. These are the people from whom we need to protect ourselves and our loved ones, and that the government needs to enable the public to protect itself (read: get rid of some no-gun zones, or allow certain parties to be armed).
    Brad426 and Boozehound like this.

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    ...As for the mother in this case, I don't know of the facts that were there to indicate the son was going to mass murder children. I think the woman is being villified. On a news program yesterday they spoke of her as if she lead a "secret gun-culture nut" life, having an "arsenal" at home. The woman had just five guns. Big deal. As for her son, the news reports I have read is that she was trying to get help. If you have facts that support the assertion that she was willfully blind to her son's situation, please provide them. It's easy to blame others, but I think the blame here rests with the killer, and not one of his victims.

    ...
    Trying to get help, and getting help are two different things. I have intentionally kept myself away from the news since this happened because I can not stand the media and the sensationalism - so I do not have much info on the mother/family. What I do know is the problem with Lanza did not happen overnight, and was likely evident sometime in the last 10 years. Probably glaringly obvious at age 16. That's 4 years of trying what, before the mother died trying to stop him (I really want to believe that). There are only 2 people that knew what was really going on, and they took those facts to the grave.

    How many of you that have children will shrug off behavioral signs as "a phase" and hope it does not continue, or they will grow out of it? How many of you would avoid institutionalizing your child even though you know they are mentally unstable and violent? All of you, because you love your children unconditionally.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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