We have lost the real point of the 2A - Page 3

We have lost the real point of the 2A

This is a discussion on We have lost the real point of the 2A within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Gene83 There has been a lot of talk lately about British gun control laws and how well that works in Great Britain. ...

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Thread: We have lost the real point of the 2A

  1. #31
    Member Array shadow247's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene83 View Post
    There has been a lot of talk lately about British gun control laws and how well that works in Great Britain. I will be the first to admit that it does.
    Gun control in Britain works quite well for the criminals. It is almost certain they will meet no resistance when they choose to assault someone.


  2. #32
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    There has been a lot of talk lately about British gun control laws and how well that works in Great Britain.
    What they fail to mention is that the average Brit does not own firearms and that if a Brit does happen to use a firearms in self defense, they will be prosecuted for doing so, in spite of the fact that they were defending themselves. There are many cases of the state spending more time and effort prosecuting homeowners than the thugs themselves that broke in and attempted to rob the place.

    As far as I 'm concerned... that nation of BRITAIN has nothing that I want....ecpecially their methods of controlling the population.

    So when I hear of British gun control laws working so well, I am reminded that they would be speaking German today if we had we not intervened at a period in time where they were about to lose it all.
    To put it bluntly...I don't much care what Britain "thinks" about a particular subject such as gun control. As far as I 'm concerened,they aren't qualified to speak.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    What they fail to mention is that the average Brit does not own firearms and that if a Brit does happen to use a firearms in self defense, they will be prosecuted for doing so, in spite of the fact that they were defending themselves. There are many cases of the state spending more time and effort prosecuting homeowners than the thugs themselves that broke in and attempted to rob the place.

    As far as I 'm concerned... that nation of BRITAIN has nothing that I want....ecpecially their methods of controlling the population.

    So when I hear of British gun control laws working so well, I am reminded that they would be speaking German today if we had we not intervened at a period in time where they were about to lose it all.
    To put it bluntly...I don't much care what Britain "thinks" about a particular subject such as gun control. As far as I 'm concerened,they aren't qualified to speak.
    This is the truth if it's ever been written.

  4. #34
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    The real point of the Second Amendment. Nothing else really matters...in spite of what some people think.



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    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadow247 View Post
    The 2nd amendment exists for one purpose, to allow one to defend oneself against an attack, whether it be from your neighbor or the government. The founders never intended there to be a standing army under control of the Federal Government.
    You're correct. Article 1, section 8, paragraph 12 clearly states that the United States should not have a standing army. Here's the rub in today's world however. Given the technology required to maintain a valid fighting force it is not reasonable to expect that any individual or even a group of individuals could possibly maintain the hardware to support such a force.

    Therefore, we have the conundrum of having to protect our country from enemies foreign and by doing so providing the technology to the government creating a situation where we the people are incapable of protecting ourselves from the enemies domestic so long as the military remains under the control of the government. We are clearly in different circumstance than our founding fathers were. In their day a cannon was really the state-of-the-art in terms of expensive military equipment.

    I am not saying I have all the answers. and I clearly think we should be able to buy whatever we can afford. But I also think that the Constitution should be amended to provide for standing army with certain restrictions because there's really no other way to protect ourselves against foreign enemies. If we don't do this at the federal level, we have to do it state-level. This is one area, and I don't think there are many, where I do believe the economies of scale are in favor of the federal government performing the service.
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  6. #36
    VIP Member Array tkruf's Avatar
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    Also, it was not written with the intent of limiting us to flintlocks, or any arms of the time period. Don't you thing our forefather's knew that during future generations that firearms would evolve? I think they realized it, and didn't put any limitations in there.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 481 View Post
    It does appear that way. I am just sick of the continued attacks on our freedom and the Left's exploitation of these tragedies to push their sickening anti-American agenda.
    Thats because the "Leftists" in this country hate our constitution unless it works for them and ONLY them and their gains. I honestly don't understand how Democrats are pro 2a. It really really blows my mind. I consider Democrats Leftists cuz they all sleep in the same bed as far as I'm concerned.

  8. #38
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    I have no problem filling out a form to make sure firearms doesn't end up in the hands of a criminal, America has evolved into one of the greatest nations on earth, we are now able to support a much larger population so do I understand the laws that exist? Yes! Do I think that billionaires should be able to buy a nuke and cause chaos on a massive scale? Absolutely not. But I do think that the current gun laws ( the ones that tell me what gun I can own, that I have to pay a tax just so I can slap a silencer on my glock) violates the second amendment on its base level. Our officials need to use common sense when 'regulating' guns. 150 years ago 98% of the population could carry around a silenced M4 with selective fire because they knew if they murdered someone or robbed someone they would most definitely be hanged, and I guarantee the crime rate was close to 0. Our society has evolved from one based on morals and parents who cared for their children and taught them right and wrong. To a society that wants to accept violence on some level, who glorifies murderers on the nightly news.

  9. #39
    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    The real point of the Second Amendment. Nothing else really matters...in spite of what some people think.




    My point, exactly.
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
    1 Thess. 5:16-18

  10. #40
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    Received this in an email ; I've checked some of the quotes and found those to be accurate.

    If there is any doubt about what our Founding Fathers thought the 2nd Amendment meant , read “their” words about it : (highlighted a key one in RED... that many people don't seem to have learned in American History classes).

    "The conclusion is thus inescapable that the history, concept, and wording of the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, as well as its interpretation by every major commentator and court in the first half-century after its ratification, indicates that what is protected is an individual right of a private citizen to own and carry firearms in a peaceful manner." --- Report of the Subcommittee on the Constitution of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, 97th Congress, Second Session (February 1982)

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    --- Thomas Jefferson

    The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government --- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.
    --- Patrick Henry

    When the government fears the people, it is liberty. When the people fear the government, it is tyranny.
    --- Thomas Paine

    Americans have the right and advantage of being armed -- unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.
    --- James Madison

    The Constitution shall never be construed … to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.
    --- Samuel Adams

    The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed.
    --- Alexander Hamilton

    When the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually...I ask, who are the militia? They consist of now of the whole people, except a few public officers. But I cannot say who will be the militia of the future day. If that paper on the table gets no alteration, the militia of the future day may not consist of all classes, high and low, and rich and poor...
    --- George Mason, Virginia Constitution Convention, 1788

    That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state.
    --- George Mason, Virginia Constitution Convention, 1788

    What plan for the regulation of the militia may be pursued by the national government is impossible to be foreseen...Little more can reasonably be aimed at with the respect to the people at large than to have them properly armed and equipped.
    --- James Madison, Federalist No. 29.

    The said Constitution [shall] be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience, or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.
    --- Samuel Adams, Massachusetts' U.S. Constitution ratification convention, 1788.

    Militias, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves and include all men capable of bearing arms.
    --- Richard Henry Lee, Letters from The Federal Farmer, 1788.

    Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.
    --- Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789.

    A strong body makes a strong mind. As to the species of exercise I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Let your gun, therefore, be the constant companion of your walks.
    --- Thomas Jefferson

    To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.
    --- Richard Henry Lee, 1788

    To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.
    --- George Mason

    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
    --- Thomas Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764

    Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?
    --- Patrick Henry

    ...arms...discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. ...Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived the use of them.
    --- Thomas Paine

    "The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
    --Thomas Jefferson

    We should not forget that the spark which ignited the American Revolution was caused by the British attempt to confiscate the firearms of the colonists.--- Patrick Henry

    When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour.
    --- George Washington

    The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.
    --- George Washington

    To suppose arms in the hands of citizens, to be used at individual discretion, except in private self-defense, or by partial orders of towns, countries or districts of a state, is to demolish every constitution, and lay the laws prostrate, so that liberty can be enjoyed by no man; it is a dissolution of the government. The fundamental law of the militia is, that it be created, directed and commanded by the laws, and ever for the support of the laws.
    ---John Adams, A Defence of the Constitutions of the United States 475 (1787-1788)

    The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, ... or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed...
    --- Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Major John Cartwright, June 5, 1824

    A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained in arms, is the best most natural defense of a free country.
    --- James Madison

    Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.
    --- Thomas Paine

    A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained in arms, is the best most natural defense of a free country.
    --- James Madison

    Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.
    --- James Madison

    Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense?
    --- Patrick Henry

    No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms.
    --- Thomas Jefferson

    One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them.
    --- Thomas Jefferson

    The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation where the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.
    --- James Madison

    To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.
    --- Richard Henry Lee
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    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

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