Our Rights: When Do We Say "ENOUGH"?
This is a discussion on Our Rights: When Do We Say "ENOUGH"? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Allow me to preface this post by saying I don't have the answer...still looking for it.
Most of us over the age of 50 can ...
December 28th, 2012 09:42 AM
Our Rights: When Do We Say "ENOUGH"?
Allow me to preface this post by saying I don't have the answer...still looking for it.
Most of us over the age of 50 can all say "I remember when."
Many under the age of 40 who didn't enjoy those freedoms of the past can't say that; at least not to the same degree.
It is difficult to miss what you never had.
Has America run it's course?
Do we go the way of many empires?
Are we fighting nothing more than a delaying action?
Laws don't seem to work.
Elected officials who may have had good intentions get swallowed up in the political machine and no longer
represent the people.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure.
Is violence the only remaining answer? Are we as sheep afraid to admit this possibility?
History clearly shows in America, this was often the answer.
I read a post some time back where a 80 year old Pro 2A poster said it no longer mattered to him since he is
not long in this world anyway.
Nothing seems to be working as freedom, rights and Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness is not only eroding and disappearing; but is continually being attacked for a more regimented world order.
"THEY (WHO) SEEK TO ESTABLISH SYSTEMS OF GOVERNMENT BASED ON THE REGIMENTATION OF ALL HUMAN BEINGS BY A HANDFUL OF INDIVIDUAL RULERS...CALL THIS A NEW ORDER. IT IS NOT NEW AND IT IS NOT ORDER."
"When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan
Do what you can; then do what you must
December 28th, 2012 09:52 AM
You make good points, and yes, "I remember when".
Currently, I'm not for giving up or compromising, in fact I'm fired up and ready to go on the offensive. To me, some of the current ideas on "gun laws" just repeat the same old, same old. I even have some in-laws from California and they agree that something has to be done differently rather than focus on gun control.
I'm not in any political position other than being a voter. I do vote regularly, write my congressmen and senators (two letters for each so far) and I encourage others to join some pro 2A organization.
December 28th, 2012 09:55 AM
As far as I'm concerned our great-grandparents are the ones who failed to say "enough" in time. From the Depression onward, we have been too far down the rabbit hole. You can see it in every aspect of life that you are now controlled like you wouldn't have been back then, including the 1934 NFA. That law is an abomination, but it is just one of a great many that came from its time. Until we drop the notion that the government is there to take care of you, rather than simply help you enforce mutually agreeable contracts and throw murderers and thieves in jail, we aren't going to fix anything.
December 28th, 2012 10:07 AM
I remember when no way, no how could I legally carry a concealed firearm upon my person anywhere except in my home. It is very easy to remember, since it changed only nine years ago. I couldn't carry into an establishment which served alcohol until last year. I remember when semi-autos with a capacity over ten rounds could not legally be purchased. That changed nine years ago, as well. I remember when I could be charged, and sued for defending myself and my family for defending against a criminal intruder.I don't want to go back to that. I also remember what my taxes were like before the Bush tax cuts. I don't want to go back to that, either. I enjoy more freedoms today than I have at any time in my life, and I want to keep them. They are, to me, worth keeping and expanding.
"Denial has no survival value." David Grossman
December 28th, 2012 10:07 AM
Unfortunately, I have given up on most politicians. Our choices for candidates have been bad and worse. I vote to try and keep the worst (in my opinion anyway) out. They say what the people want to hear and when elected do the complete opposite. Obama said he won't raise taxes on the middle class and now he slowly recanting that statement.
Laws only work if they are upheld. Letting a killer out of jail after 5 years good behavior is absurb.
My father pulled me aside when I was a teenager and said something to me that I really didn't believe at the time but now I wonder. He said, "son I may not see it my lifetime but I bet you will see it in yours. The government is getting to big and there is going to be a revolution in this country." I'm 40 now and it looks bad. I hope it doesn't come to that.
December 28th, 2012 10:08 AM
We say enough by comming together and voting your heart and mind in the next election.....get rid of these professional politician types.
December 28th, 2012 10:14 AM
The time to say enough was this past November...now all we can do is try to hang on for 4 more years. There are mid-term elections for House and Senate seats in 2 years...and we all need to know who all was supporting gun control measures when we vote.
Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.
December 28th, 2012 11:15 AM
Our voices are being heard. The problem is that they are being ignored.
*WARNING - I may or may not know what I am talking about.
December 28th, 2012 11:21 AM
Well, since somebody likes it so much I'll say it...
"When you get angry enough, grab your rifle and run outside.
If you're the only one there, it's not time yet!"
Will it ever be time?
I doubt it.
Because your neighbor was out on his porch on December 19th, and you weren't on yours.
You went out on yours the day you heard Feinstein's proposals, but he wasn't out there.
He wanted some more gun control. But he is an avid hunter.
You wanted less gun control, and you don't hunt.
The issues of late, are divisive issues. Especially as regards gun control. There's a nearly 50/50 split. So half the country is on their stoop, and can't see any neighbors out... and the other half of us are out on ours on a different day.
Now, there's a whole lot more going on... and more important than gun control. And we, as a nation are as divided on those issues as we are on the gun issue. Bail this one out/don't bail that one... Cut these programs... not those... Raise taxes... don't. Let me borrow some rappelling gear, there's a cliff in our future.. chillax man... no cliff I can see...
We have begun to define ourselves... and divide ourselves. Red/Blue... Conservative/liberal... Right/left...
Right/Wrong... Realist/utopian... and the list goes on... and on... and on... and on...
And there is no moderation or compromise in anything.
One thing we all are, is Americans. We come in many colors and stripes. Many nationalities and heritages.
But we have forgotten that..
All we care about is our rights... our right to guns... our right to live without fear of guns... our rights to our money... our rights to a hand up, a helping hand, a basic survivable life.
The politicians, frankly, don't know which way to turn... defend this constituent or that?
And, here's the FAIL:
And, they start looking out for ONE constituent.... themselves.... they want to get re-elected... that is all they care about. They will do whatever it takes to get re-elected... if it seems that one side can get them re-elected over another... the side with the power gets their vote, literally, in session. The rest is all just talk.
The only solution I can come up with is to start a new party... the non-incumbent party. Vote them all out... every time... starting in the next cycle, the mid terms. Until the electees get it... they work for us... that's U.S. The UNITED STATES.
Now, honestly, it's maybe too late for it to work... we've gone too far... We've got some 20 or 40 feet of shelf space taken up by books of Federal regulations that for the most part aren't really constitutional. We've got the same in our state houses. We've got tax codes that weigh 40 pounds of paper...
We've got a budget that is too long to read in a month of reading. And, every time a budget passes, there's some little kicker that has NOTHING to do with a Budget. Do you remember what was included in one of the last budgets? Carrying guns in National Parks.... nothing to do with budgets....
Wait for it....
How about, if in this budget, there's a little add on.... you know, "we'll let this pass, if you just include this one little thing.... And we can avoid the fiscal cliff.... wouldn't that be best for everyone?"
And that add on, this time... will it be an AWB?
Hmmmmmm? I wonder.
It could be worse!
December 28th, 2012 11:33 AM
Enuff was past a long time ago. There was a time when you didnt need a permit to own a gun, or a licence to carry it concealed anyplace you wanted. It wasnt that long ago.
Now you have rumblings of states wanting to break from the United States though thats all I think that will ever amount too is rumbling. And it is because of rights being trampled on. States rights and individual rights. Someday it will boil over but I doubt I will live long enough to see it.
December 28th, 2012 11:46 AM
Not in my lifetime, at least in Ohio.
Originally Posted by Ghost1958
"Denial has no survival value." David Grossman
December 28th, 2012 12:07 PM
No not in your lifetime, but this country is not that old. There was a time not long before you and I were illicit thoughts in our pappys mind that it was so. And I feel you about Ohio. I carry there with a Ky permit but if your pulled over for any reason Ohio LEO will try to give you a hard time about it. Nothing they can do but they will try to make you think there is with ominous warnings not to bring a gun into the state permit or not next time. At least that has been my expierience there.
Originally Posted by Mike1956
December 28th, 2012 12:18 PM
Yes. Our elected officials have now gone past the line where they represent us.
I think the true line was when the Affordable Health Care Act (that title just kills me LOL) was passed. After that, it has been beyond the point of no return.
I agree with oakchas, in that there is not a collective, intelligent or overtly aware majority/group of US Citizens.............................. They have devided us to a point that I do not know what will gather critical mass to get the Political Class to respond.
December 28th, 2012 12:21 PM
I find it amusing that, "liberals" who love to compare our gun laws and statistics to places like Great Britain and Australia completely disregard the fact that those countries have greatly limited free speech as well (not to mention laws against pointy kitchen knives for crying out loud), and no expectation of privacy at all (CCTV anyone?).
To put it another way, why is it that, "Liberals" are the first ones to call for less liberty? We need to find a better term for these people.
December 28th, 2012 12:27 PM
Being far far far over 50 there is a lot I don't like as compared to the way things were in my youth, but I also know
Originally Posted by RightsEroding
a country of 315+ million people has a slightly different set of problems than the country I was born into with well less than half the population. What works in rural areas doesn't work so well in suburban areas, and may be totally bad in urban areas, and the other way around. And that applies to lots of things besides gun laws.
The quote from Jefferson needs some background information before it is so widely and wildly used as a form of guidance.
It came within a context, and was a reference to his views on the horrific and catastrophic French revolution which he thought (as did many Americans of the day), a good thing. It turned out horrendously bad with 10s of thousands of Priests and ordinary citizens ruthlessly murdered and ended with a new dictatorship that surpassed the monarchy in brutality and ruthlessness. It was not a good thing.
Jefferson's remark was not a remark intended to pertain to the US.
I could go on but you get the point I hope.
Last edited by Hopyard; December 28th, 2012 at 07:38 PM.
Reason: move a parentheses
If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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