Problems countering new gun legislation

[John Luttrel]

I'm surprised at how many in here are willing to sell out our constitution, as long as their own personal agendas are advanced, in fact, I'm down right ashamed that any American could sell out their country by putting their own agenda ahead of the individual rights guaranteed to us by the Bill of rights; I served 24 years in our military to protect the US Constitution, not just some of it, but ALL of it. Some of you need to take a step back and read the US Constitution again, only this time with out any false pretenses that there are any individual rights mention in there that are expendable, these rights trump the collective rights of any community and certainly should never be sold out for personal gain. Vr.......

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Sticks]

Yeah, I agree. It sucks but until/unless a 3rd party candidate can really show some legitimate shot at winning, we are stuck with voting for 'the lesser of two evils'. I've felt the same way and sometimes I vote for the person whom I really want to win and sometimes I begrudgingly vote for the guy that actually has a shot but only covers about half the stuff that I find important.

Unless the reset button gets pushed in DC, we will never see a candidate that will be "middle of the road". The Tea Party started out great, then they went bat poo crazy and put their extremist to the front, just like the Dems and Repubs. Political party means that their candidate will be their top extremist for their party. If thy have any views that follow those of an opposing party, they are automatically DQ'd.

We have enough problems fighting among ourselves (by design) to unite as a whole against things like taxes, immigration, 2a, R.v.W., etc.

I voted hoping for a complete stalemate for the next 4 years. I'd rather nothing got done than what was potentially coming down the pipe from either party. Now I am praying that whatever collection of wackadoodles get elected next go around to replace the current ones, can undo the damage that is about to become created.

There are 2 bills in process right now (HR 308 and HR 6241) plus the Feinstien atrocity coming to a nightmare near you soon (being strongly supported by 3 CO reps - feel free to nuke CO, I'm ashamed to live here now).

1 all encompassing bill, and likely a dozen of flea bite bills all going after the 2nd - all based on emotional arguments, coupled with 1.2 billion rounds of ammo being bought by various three letter agencies.

No good can come from this.

[suntzu]

I'm surprised at how many in here are willing to sell out our constitution, as long as their own personal agendas are advanced, in fact, I'm down right ashamed that any American could sell out their country by putting their own agenda ahead of the individual rights guaranteed to us by the Bill of rights; I served 24 years in our military to protect the US Constitution, not just some of it, but ALL of it. Some of you need to take a step back and read the US Constitution again, only this time with out any false pretenses that there are any individual rights mention in there that are expendable, these rights trump the collective rights of any community and certainly should never be sold out for personal gain. Vr.......

Soo.........what you are stating is vote for a pro 2A candidate (at least one that meets the defininiton in your eyes) regardless if he is a right wing loon and would spend our tx dollars irresponsibly, deny or limit rights to certain groups, want to wage war in countries that may or may not be a threat to us, and might even advocate other policies that negatively affect our day to dy lives....

Yes, part of that was sarcasm and part of it was real.

[TX expat]

Soo.........what you are stating is vote for a pro 2A candidate (at least one that meets the defininiton in your eyes) regardless if he is a right wing loon and would spend our tx dollars irresponsibly, deny or limit rights to certain groups, want to wage war in countries that may or may not be a threat to us, and might even advocate other policies that negatively affect our day to dy lives....

Yes, part of that was sarcasm and part of it was real.

I guess one of us took his post the wrong way, because I didn't read that at all.

[suntzu]

I guess one of us took his post the wrong way, because I didn't read that at all.

I I misunderstood then I apologize. But IMO, or the way I read it, is that the OP thinks that some folks on this forum are thinking of themselves and don't care about the Constitution. I guess what I was trying to say there is not perfect candidate and defintily none that are strict Constitutionalist.

Just like the LGBT example...they feel there rights are being trampled on as it is. They are willing to sacrifice some 2A rights if it means the politician they vote for will support their lifestyle.......makes more sense?

NOTE: I did say part of my post was sarcasm LOL

[John Luttrel]

My point is, that any politician that doesn't protect each and every one of our individual rights laid out in the US Constitution is not worthy of our vote, regardless if he or she so happens to promote agendas near and dear to your heart. You can not support the US Constitution in parts only, it's all or nothing because if you allow some of it to fall, the rest is sure to follow. No offense taken, this is a friendly debate and discourse is part of what makes us free.

[suntzu]

My point is, that any politician that doesn't protect each and every one of our individual rights laid out in the US Constitution is not worthy of our vote, regardless if he or she so happens to promote agendas near and dear to your heart. You can not support the US Constitution in parts only, it's all or nothing because if you allow some of it to fall, the rest is sure to follow. No offense taken, this is a friendly debate and discourse is part of what makes us free.

Unforutunatley there are VERY few of those....do you appen to any of them by name? I seriously can not think of one at the moment.

[TX expat]

I I misunderstood then I apologize. But IMO, or the way I read it, is that the OP thinks that some folks on this forum are thinking of themselves and don't care about the Constitution. I guess what I was trying to say there is not perfect candidate and defintily none that are strict Constitutionalist.

Just like the LGBT example...they feel there rights are being trampled on as it is. They are willing to sacrifice some 2A rights if it means the politician they vote for will support their lifestyle.......makes more sense?

NOTE: I did say part of my post was sarcasm LOL

Yeah, you may have it right, I don't know. I guess it boils down to what he considers a "personal agenda" vs. what he considers a "right". Since he basically said that no individual right should be sacrificed for the collective's, I assumed he was more supporting what you were saying. Regardless, I support what you are saying. When your rights are being violated by every party, you have every right to choose your candidate based on which ever of those rights is the highest priority. I'm sure they'd like to have one candidate that supported all their important issues, but it seems that none of us get that!

[xXxplosive]

Aren't they sworn to uphold the US Constitution during taking the oath of office...........Washington would have had them hung....IMO.

[HotGuns]

The ugly truth of the matter is...
most people in this country are too stupid to realize that ones the right to bear arms is gone...the others will soon follow.

People that "sacrifice" one right for another dont deserve any of them.

It's painfully evident that most people are so short sighted and it never even occurs to them that what they are doing is insuring the end of freedom as we know it.

[Mike1956]

Yeah, I agree. It sucks but until/unless a 3rd party candidate can really show some legitimate shot at winning, we are stuck with voting for 'the lesser of two evils'. I've felt the same way and sometimes I vote for the person whom I really want to win and sometimes I begrudgingly vote for the guy that actually has a shot but only covers about half the stuff that I find important.

Between Romney and Obama, I could not discern the lessor. Even if I could, a vote for the lessor is still, for me, at least, a vote for evil, and I just can't bring myself to do that. Johnson represented the most fully the values which I hold dear. The other two, not even close.

[John Luttrel]

Aren't they sworn to uphold the US Constitution during taking the oath of office...........Washington would have had them hung....IMO.

Yes, this is my point, the rights lined out specifically in black and white, in the Bill of Rights are absolute. The right of gays and lesbians to have a union and call it marriage is not specifically lined out in the Bill of Rights and therefore not absolute. For the record, I believe what goes on, between two consenting adults, behind closed doors is nobody's business, but I stop short of calling it marriage.

[Mike1956]

Unforutunatley there are VERY few of those....do you appen to any of them by name? I seriously can not think of one at the moment.

Moderators, this link is quite political, but answers a very specific question asked by Suntzu:
Libertarian Party | Maximum Freedom, Minimum Government

[TX expat]

Between Romney and Obama, I could not discern the lessor. Even if I could, a vote for the lessor is still, for me, at least, a vote for evil, and I just can't bring myself to do that. Johnson represented the most fully the values which I hold dear. The other two, not even close.

Very true. It's the way I feel about virtually all elections.

[JNC]

I am as libertarian as libertarian comes... I think if most Americans had to take a test as to which political party they belong based on beliefs, they would end up in the Libertarian Party. Unfortunately, I do not see how we move from a 2 party system. There is too much money and too much power entrenched in that system. Maybe smarter people than me can figure out how to change that system.

I think it is critical that we see 2nd Amendment issues not as a Republican vs Democrat issue. We have to have those that vote both directions make their voice heard by both parties. I just think for the season we are in, we need to make sure we are communicating to our elected officials. The more an elected official hears how 2A issues are to their constituents, the more they will listen... regardless of party.

I'm trying to make a personal commitment to become more engaged in the entire process. I was not happy with the election results in November, but I honestly did little more than show up at the ballot box. I will not let that be said again.