Problems countering new gun legislation

This is a discussion on Problems countering new gun legislation within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Before anyone starts flaming me on this I want to say the following are my observations and personal experience dealing with folks around the country. ...

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Thread: Problems countering new gun legislation

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Problems countering new gun legislation

    Before anyone starts flaming me on this I want to say the following are my observations and personal experience dealing with folks around the country. I did not include any "stats" because that always turns into an exercise infutility with counter stats and interpretations. Okee Dokee:

    The problem is see is this: A lot of gunowners, some might actually say a majority, do not look at the 2A like many folks here do. I am a purists for the most part about the Constitution. I don't give a hoot if a person is blind, if they want a gun they sure can own one. If they go outside their house and hear a noise and shoot someone then they should be treated according to what ever law there is for being a ******* and shooting at something you could not see or identify.

    I will give three example of why folks will put the 2A on the back burner as long as they can keep what they think they need:

    1. My niece is a lesbian as well as her partner. They both CC. If given a choice to vote for a pro LGBT person who will ban AR's and AK's they would vote for that person instead of a conservative who is opposed to such a ban. I talked to my niece about this and almost all of her friends would vote the same way. Also, I know a lesbian and gay dude in school and they echo the same sentiment. They do acknoledge that it could be like mission creep where they start with the AWB and it gets expanded over time but since a gun is not part of their everyday life and being who they are is, voting for the 2A comes secondary.

    2. I know many people of Hispanic descent and/or legally in this country and are citizens that are avid gun owners. They also not prioritize the 2A over what they percieve as immoral immigartain and deportation policies. Therefore they are more likely to vote for a politician that leans more to the left on this issue and as long as their 10 round pistol and thier hunting rifles are not affected and the politician is more in line with thier views on immigration and Hispanic issues.

    3. Hunters. Mnay talk a big game about being in the NRA and gun rights but when you get down to it as long as thier REM 700 or Savage is not affected they can live with that as long as a politician is going to support unions and other more democratic party agendas.

    BTW: I did not include all of the old ladies who have a 70 year old revolver in thier house and other folks like that who will not prioritize the 2A when voting. Pretty big voter base out there IMO that will talk a good game but will not prioritize the 2A when voting

    These are observations I have got from people I know, family, friends, and acquaintences. They span folks from the Christian conservative to liberal left.

    In a nutshell: the 2A sounds good talking about how great it is at the range, out with the guys, signing up for the NRA, but when it comes down to voting I think it is not that high up on the list for many folks...including gun owners as long as they can keep what is theirs.

    OK...for rebuttals I expect to see

    1. "Don't know who you hang around with but all of my firends will place the 2A number one when voting"
    2. "You are insane!"
    3. "I know of polls that refute what you just said"
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    Distinguished Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    Don't know who you hang around with but all of my friends will place the 2A number one when voting.

    You are insane!

    I know of polls that refute what you just said.




    *I didn't want to let you down.

    "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."

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    Member Array HDusmc's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, your probably right, I see similar attitudes within my circle. Look at this past election, if the 2A was a priority in all gun owners minds...this freakshow wouldn't be in office.
    That being said, I just hope that the number of "us" that look at the constitution the way we do, have significant enough numbers to make a difference.
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    Member Array keboostman's Avatar
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    In my circle of friends the sentiment is exactly what you have said. A legislator's position on Second Amendment is not a driving factor in whom to vote for. Other factors far outweigh that one and, by the way, that same thing is true for me.

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    Senior Member Array sigs's Avatar
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    As evidenced by recent elections a majority of those who actually vote do so with the intent to get something/anything. Right and wrong, the Constitution,the long term health of the Republic and the country we leave our children/grandchildren have very little sway over greed and the desire to feel good about oneself. So you are probably dead on.

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    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Suntzu, I think you are absolutely spot on. Many people are single issue voters and even those who are not have a priority of things that are important to them, with an inordinate amount of weight given to those that personally effect them. Speaking of myself, over the span of many issues, I go far to the left on some and far to the right on others and this makes things very tricky. For example, I am both pro-choice in terms of abortion and support marriage equality for everyone, yet I am very pro-2A and opposed to illegal immigration and amnesty for illegal aliens. In my case, I am married to someone of the opposite gender and can't envision any need to worry about abortions, but the restrictions on the 2nd-A impact me personally. I mentioned in another post about the importance of standing up for the rights of everyone, including those who have views or even lifestyles that you disagree with, if for no other reason that sometime you may want those individuals to stand for you. In the leftist blogs and articles regarding gun control, I have seen many people flat out acknowledge that impinging on the 2nd-A is an infringement on peoples rights, but then they flat out say that they don't care because in their view the pro-gunners didn't care about outlawing XYZ or in their view trampling on their rights.
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    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXD View Post
    Don't know who you hang around with but all of my friends will place the 2A number one when voting.

    You are insane!

    I know of polls that refute what you just said.




    *I didn't want to let you down.

    Actually he is not insane. I have spoken to a lot of people who feel they have to prioritize what they vote for. A common one I hear is; Do I vote my economic well being or do I vote pro 2A? Some people see it as a dilemma.

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    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    Actually he is not insane. I have spoken to a lot of people who feel they have to prioritize what they vote for. A common one I hear is; Do I vote my economic well being or do I vote pro 2A? Some people see it as a dilemma.
    It is absolutely, critically, imperative, that guns rights supporters come from all walks of life, from both sides of the political isle. To allow gun rights to be the providence of one political party is to be committing suicide in terms of our rights. The opposing side will use it against you, and the supposedly supporting side won't take you seriously because they will have your support regardless.
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    Unfortunately, I also think you are right. Too many folks can't connect this anti-gun push with the overbearing government intrusions of the past few years. Who would have imagined the thugs of the TSA getting away with so many outrageous "searches" and "freeze drills", an EPA telling folks to use the old Roman "crucifixion" approach to enforcement, an NLRB preventing a company from opening a plant and creating 1,000 new jobs, etc., etc.
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    Other than the fact that the friends I have from Mexico or with Mexican heritage are the loudest about wanting to deport illegals I agree with everything you've said. People on this forum have a difficult time understanding that the vast majority of Americans don't agree with us. While not opposed necessarily more Americans are simply worried about other things.
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    Distinguished Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    Actually he is not insane. I have spoken to a lot of people who feel they have to prioritize what they vote for. A common one I hear is; Do I vote my economic well being or do I vote pro 2A? Some people see it as a dilemma.
    Um..... look up above. You missed my obvious joke.

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    Here is my dilemma, which is maybe similar to others:

    I believe in the Second Amendment as written. The other ones, too.
    I believe in a woman's right to choose.
    I don't want teachers imposing their religious views on kids.
    Sex education needs to be more than "wait till marriage".
    The use of all drugs should be de-criminalized.
    Consenting adults should be allowed to get married if they want to.
    If you pay people to do nothing, that is what many of them will do.
    If you punish people for working, many of them won't.


    Given all that, there is much for me to consider on election day.
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    Distinguished Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Here is my dilemma, which is maybe similar to others:

    I believe in the Second Amendment as written. The other ones, too.
    I believe in a woman's right to choose.
    I don't want teachers imposing their religious views on kids.
    Sex education needs to be more than "wait till marriage".
    The use of all drugs should be de-criminalized.
    Consenting adults should be allowed to get married if they want to.
    If you pay people to do nothing, that is what many of them will do.
    If you punish people for working, many of them won't.


    Given all that, there is much for me to consider on election day.
    Do you vote Libertarian? Their philosophy fits yours perfectly. If so, then you face the same dilemma I faced back in 2004. I voted for Michael Badnarik, knowing that he didn't have a snowball's chance, but I refused to vote for either of the mainstream candidates. But now, after four years of Obama, I held my nose and voted for Mitt Romney this time.
    "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."

    -miklcolt45

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXD View Post
    Do you vote Libertarian? Their philosophy fits yours perfectly. If so, then you face the same dilemma I faced back in 2004. I voted for Michael Badnarik, knowing that he didn't have a snowball's chance, but I refused to vote for either of the mainstream candidates. But now, after four years of Obama, I held my nose and voted for Mitt Romney this time.
    Gary Johnson didn't have a chance either, but I voted for him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Gary Johnson didn't have a chance either, but I voted for him.
    Yeah, I agree. It sucks but until/unless a 3rd party candidate can really show some legitimate shot at winning, we are stuck with voting for 'the lesser of two evils'. I've felt the same way and sometimes I vote for the person whom I really want to win and sometimes I begrudgingly vote for the guy that actually has a shot but only covers about half the stuff that I find important.
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