White House trying to rally WalMart and others for gun control legislation.

This is a discussion on White House trying to rally WalMart and others for gun control legislation. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by TX expat Well if you are NOT talking about private party sales then what exactly are you talking about? EVERY FFL does ...

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  1. #16
    NMB
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    Quote Originally Posted by TX expat View Post
    Well if you are NOT talking about private party sales then what exactly are you talking about? EVERY FFL does NICS checks because by law they have to. So where exactly do you see some benefit? Criminals are already flagged in NICS. Mentally ill people that have some documented history that would disallow them from owning firearms are already flagged in NICS.

    Of course the mentally ill are a tricky group because plenty of them are not documented on any governmental level. Privacy rights interfere with little things like that.
    Big misunderstanding between us brother. Many states in the US dont have instantaneous inclusion of criminal and mental health records into NCIC. That needs to be fixed. The Virginia Tech shooter had been found mentally unfit by a Virginia judge, however several months later he was still able to go into a shop and pass a check to buy a handgun. That shouldn't have happened and was a failure of the system.

    Thats what I want fixed, I want to make sure the info thats supposed to be in there gets in there as quickly as possible.

    Im not calling for ANY new laws, just make the NCIC as functional and up to date as possible.

    What you sell me and I sell you is our own business.
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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMB View Post
    Big misunderstanding between us brother. Many states in the US dont have instantaneous inclusion of criminal and mental health records into NCIC. That needs to be fixed. The Virginia Tech shooter had been found mentally unfit by a Virginia judge, however several months later he was still able to go into a shop and pass a check to buy a handgun. That shouldn't have happened and was a failure of the system.

    Thats what I want fixed, I want to make sure the info thats supposed to be in there gets in there as quickly as possible.

    Im not calling for ANY new laws, just make the NCIC as functional and up to date as possible.

    What you sell me and I sell you is our own business.
    Ok, but the failures of reporting that caused Cho to pass the NICS has already been addressed at the state level in VA and the federal level in response to that situation. I believe the federal legislation should have created some standardization of the reporting procedures for all states regarding those that had been adjudicated mentally ill.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMB View Post
    Some of this stuff I support, its good to see they arent trying to push one big bill, but many smaller ones. Hopefully the extreme stuff will be filtered out (an AWB).

    I support improving the way in which information gets into NCIC. That information network should be broad and instantaneous. Just doing that in and of itself would have stopped VT or at least prevented the shooter from buying his handgun legally. Same with Aurora.

    Lets work within our current system.
    Did you really just type that? So you feel that the information on legal gun owners should be "broad and instantaneous?" You, my friend, aren't very familiar with the concept of "They Won't Stop There."

    That "broad and instantaneous" database on gun ownership isn't very far from "let's track the movement of every gun owner at all times, make them ask permission to leave the State with their guns, get pre-approved in advance." All because, hey, guns are dangerous and IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN!!!!!!

    Do you seriously believe that any gun law would have stopped the shooters you mentioned, "or at least prevented the shooter from buying his handgun legally." They would have just gotten them illegally, all while making the rest of us jump through hoops.

    "Hopefully the extreme stuff will be filtered out (an AWB)." ???? As far as I'm concerned, it's "extreme stuff" that is already being proposed and it's already well beyond egregious and highly unconstitutional.

    But then again, I disagree with the requirement of a permit to carry concealed, so what do I know?
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMB View Post
    I think its better because with the current political climate, there may be enough momentum to push a big bill through. Registering semi automatics with NFA sounds crazy on its own, but tossed in with 20 other things, it could be accepted.
    OK fair enough, but the trouble I see is that they would more easily push tidbits of an overall more restrictive ban, perhaps of all modern firearms, through by attaching each bit to bigger, unrelated bills.. and get everything they want piece by piece over the next 4 years and nobody would be the wiser till it's too late, although none of this seems to matter since Obama has already stated he'll shove the bun ban down our collective throat with executive order if the houses won't do it for him.
    Last edited by GlassWolf; January 6th, 2013 at 02:50 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMB View Post
    Big misunderstanding between us brother. Many states in the US dont have instantaneous inclusion of criminal and mental health records into NCIC. That needs to be fixed. The Virginia Tech shooter had been found mentally unfit by a Virginia judge, however several months later he was still able to go into a shop and pass a check to buy a handgun. That shouldn't have happened and was a failure of the system.

    Thats what I want fixed, I want to make sure the info thats supposed to be in there gets in there as quickly as possible.

    Im not calling for ANY new laws, just make the NCIC as functional and up to date as possible.

    What you sell me and I sell you is our own business.
    Also, I do apologize for any misunderstanding on my part but you did say that you "supported some of this stuff" and all of this stuff amounts to new laws that would effect law abiding gun owners. To the best of my knowledge none of the currently pending legislation is solely focused on improving the use of current laws.
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    And just so you know... a lot of vendors at gunshows are gun store owners... in fact my first handgun I purchased as at a gunshow... I was also charged 5 dollars by the seller and had to wait as she got on her cellphone and called the NCIC for a go/no go for me AT A GUN SHOW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NMB View Post
    So youre ok with criminals and the mentally ill being able to buy guns without a background check? (NOT talking about private sales here)

    Im not calling for taking anything away, im saying get the info thats already supposed to be in the check in there!
    Um...maybe it's me but my understanding is that everyone purchasing a firearm from an FFL under federal law needs the quick background check. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

    What I do know is that certain information is withheld or not available when checking the background. I wouldn't mind adjusting that a bit.
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  9. #23
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    My opinion of NICS is this...

    For the unenlightened out there, NICS is crap.

    It does not prevent anything. It's supposed to be instant. Ask the guy at the gunshops that had to wait two days for an instant check what they think about it. Or the guys that got delayed for several hours because the NICS system was "overwhelmed".

    NICS is no less an a data base that registers who is buying what. The fools out there beleive that it's not a registration system, but it is.

    I got audited by the ATF last week. It was an NFA audit. It lasted 9 hours. The examiner pulls out some paper that was a record of every single time I called NICS and compared some of the 4473's on file and compared the transaction number...and it goes back for a year.

    A year? I've been told numerous times that they dont keep any data, that its against the law for them to keep anything for more than 3 months...yet here is an agent that pulls out a sheet of every transaction that I had done in the last year.Even she said that it only went back 3 months. "If it only goes back 3 months " I asked..."then how is it that you can go back a year?" She got this wierd look on her face and then said, "that's what we are told to say". Hmmm. I thought. O.K.

    I wish that some of our rocket surgeons here would explain that one away.

    NICS...is a de facto registration system. It tells the government that John Doe, bought this handgun,rifle or other, at this place, on this date.

    Any you people that think it does something for the good, need to get a clue. All it does is show that some whacked out crazy sucker hasnt run afoul of the law at that period in time. Nothing more,nothing less. If you think it prevents one single act of violence, then you have bought into a lie. You have sacrificed your right to privacy because you bought into the liberal mantra that being made safer requires a sacrifice of freedom. If you are that uniformed, that simple minded or that stupid, then you are part of the problem.

    And you people expect the Federal Government to be able to successfully classify mentally sick people? That would be funny if it werent so pitiful.

    Think about what some of our hard core socialists in government think. They think that gun owners are sick. Christians are sick. Any body that bought a handgun or an evil black rifle that no one needs is sick. They think that if you throw a fit about getting taxed into oblivion you are sick. That if you refuse to bend down and kiss the boots of a President that you are sick. If you spank or disicpline your kids you are sick. If you go to any church more than twice a year you are sick. If you own pit-bulls you are sick. If you own a gas or diesel guzzing truck that you can actually put something in you are sick. If you have too many TV's you are sick.If you oppose an immoral lifestyle...you are sick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NMB View Post
    So youre ok with criminals and the mentally ill being able to buy guns without a background check? (NOT talking about private sales here)

    Im not calling for taking anything away, im saying get the info thats already supposed to be in the check in there!
    If you are for background checks then be for background checks. It is stupid to say it is needed for an FFL to sell you a gun but Joe Smith out there can sell a gun to anyone without a background check. It is one or the other. Everybody needs to do a background check or no one does.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMB View Post
    Some of this stuff I support, its good to see they arent trying to push one big bill, but many smaller ones. Hopefully the extreme stuff will be filtered out (an AWB).

    I support improving the way in which information gets into NCIC. That information network should be broad and instantaneous. Just doing that in and of itself would have stopped VT or at least prevented the shooter from buying his handgun legally. Same with Aurora.

    Lets work within our current system.
    It wont stop the government from perpetrating these crimes. VT, Columbine, Sandy Hook, Batman, each one had the same pattern of government stink. I dont care if you believe me or not. Facts and stories just dont add up on any of those and the timing was "oh so perfect" when each one happened.

    Plus NICS is just a gun registration platform. Why do you think the government is trying "Hard on new levels" to close the gun show loophole? Because they want their database.
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    As far as I'm concerned....Wal-mart can go along with Dick's and Lower Than Dirt.......their choice to make.

    I like the name TARGET.....better anyway.

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    White House trying to rally WalMart and others for gun control legislation.

    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    My opinion of NICS is this...

    For the unenlightened out there, NICS is crap.

    It does not prevent anything. It's supposed to be instant. Ask the guy at the gunshops that had to wait two days for an instant check what they think about it. Or the guys that got delayed for several hours because the NICS system was "overwhelmed".

    NICS is no less an a data base that registers who is buying what. The fools out there beleive that it's not a registration system, but it is.

    I got audited by the ATF last week. It was an NFA audit. It lasted 9 hours. The examiner pulls out some paper that was a record of every single time I called NICS and compared some of the 4473's on file and compared the transaction number...and it goes back for a year.

    A year? I've been told numerous times that they dont keep any data, that its against the law for them to keep anything for more than 3 months...yet here is an agent that pulls out a sheet of every transaction that I had done in the last year.Even she said that it only went back 3 months. "If it only goes back 3 months " I asked..."then how is it that you can go back a year?" She got this wierd look on her face and then said, "that's what we are told to say". Hmmm. I thought. O.K.

    I wish that some of our rocket surgeons here would explain that one away.

    NICS...is a de facto registration system. It tells the government that John Doe, bought this handgun,rifle or other, at this place, on this date.

    Any you people that think it does something for the good, need to get a clue. All it does is show that some whacked out crazy sucker hasnt run afoul of the law at that period in time. Nothing more,nothing less. If you think it prevents one single act of violence, then you have bought into a lie. You have sacrificed your right to privacy because you bought into the liberal mantra that being made safer requires a sacrifice of freedom. If you are that uniformed, that simple minded or that stupid, then you are part of the problem.

    And you people expect the Federal Government to be able to successfully classify mentally sick people? That would be funny if it werent so pitiful.

    Think about what some of our hard core socialists in government think. They think that gun owners are sick. Christians are sick. Any body that bought a handgun or an evil black rifle that no one needs is sick. They think that if you throw a fit about getting taxed into oblivion you are sick. That if you refuse to bend down and kiss the boots of a President that you are sick. If you spank or disicpline your kids you are sick. If you go to any church more than twice a year you are sick. If you own pit-bulls you are sick. If you own a gas or diesel guzzing truck that you can actually put something in you are sick. If you have too many TV's you are sick.If you oppose an immoral lifestyle...you are sick.

    Be careful what you wish for...because you just might get it.
    This is all I have to say to you. I work security for Walmart. We recently had a man try to buy a gun in our store and get denied, no reason given. Man then grabbed an axe and went on a small rampage, once we arrested him and the troopers took him they attempted to find out why he was denied, no go, they could not find that information. I don't believe it's a registration system, I just believe it's greatly flawed.


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  14. #28
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    White House trying to rally WalMart and others for gun control legislation.

    Crestwood, are you an armed security guard? I know a lot of places hire "security" guards and then don't arm them. All they can really do is call the police when they have an issue. Not much security in that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NMB View Post
    So youre ok with criminals and the mentally ill being able to buy guns without a background check? (NOT talking about private sales here)

    Im not calling for taking anything away, im saying get the info thats already supposed to be in the check in there!
    Irrelevant. I'm not ok that one single American gives up the most tiny piece of their liberty for the false illusion of security. I'm not ok that a gun owner thinks NCIS checks Are acceptable. It should be plain for everyone to understand...either you are on the side of this constitutional fight for gun rights or you are working to restrict and limit gun ownership. We stand and fight together or we fight each other, it does not get any more simple than that.

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    White House trying to rally WalMart and others for gun control legislation.

    sent them this quick note a minute ago;

    "Please understand that my family and I will take our business elsewhere if Walmart makes any changes in its firearm and/or ammunition policy in response to any of the current political pressure. We have a couple of alternative places to shop at that aren't much farther away that would be happy to get the substantial amount of money we spend each month.

    Thanks,"

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