An evil bill in Congress - HR 21

An evil bill in Congress - HR 21

This is a discussion on An evil bill in Congress - HR 21 within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; HR 21 - NRA Members' Gun Safety Act of 2013 Text here . Primarily: a) establishes background checks for ALL firearm transaction, even personal FTF ...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Array sdprof's Avatar
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    Angry An evil bill in Congress - HR 21

    HR 21 - NRA Members' Gun Safety Act of 2013

    Text here.

    Primarily: a) establishes background checks for ALL firearm transaction, even personal FTF ones.
    b) establishes background check for FFL's employees
    c) lets the Atty Genl prohibit transfers to people "suspected" of terrorist ties
    d) mandates reporting of lost or stolen firearms
    e) [This is the biggy] establishes criteria for states in issuing concealed carry permits. As I read the text, it would nullify the Constitutional (Concealed) Carry of AK, AZ, VT and WY.

    So far, no co-sponsors, it will likely die in committee. But keep an eye on it none the less.
    ~~~~~
    The only common sense gun legislation was written about 224 years ago.

    I carry always not because I go places trouble is likely, but because trouble has a habit of not staying in its assigned zone.


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    Member Array Shiphted's Avatar
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    An evil bill in Congress - HR 21

    I'd love to see them enforce gun law changes on us in Alaska. Doubt many here would comply.


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    IF they are going to pass a bill, that would be the one I'd pick. The mandatory background check may be a pain but it wouldn't be the end of the world. The last provision is a clear violation of the 10th Amendment but I'd be shocked if the courts allowed it to remain so not really too big of an issue. The is the AG being able to say you're a terrorist and thus infringe upon your right to own firearms that I have a problem with. Keeping in mind that this administration has basically said if you're a veteran and conservative you're a suspected terrorist it is very easy to see how this would be a problem.

    Even with the two big issues, I'd rather see this bill pass than whatever Biden suggests or the witch from California comes up with.
    "The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines."
    - Lt. Col. Oliver North

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    IF they are going to pass a bill, that would be the one I'd pick. The mandatory background check may be a pain but it wouldn't be the end of the world. The last provision is a clear violation of the 10th Amendment but I'd be shocked if the courts allowed it to remain so not really too big of an issue. The is the AG being able to say you're a terrorist and thus infringe upon your right to own firearms that I have a problem with. Keeping in mind that this administration has basically said if you're a veteran and conservative you're a suspected terrorist it is very easy to see how this would be a problem.

    Even with the two big issues, I'd rather see this bill pass than whatever Biden suggests or the witch from California comes up with.
    Hmmmm....Patriot Act, and the "No Fly List" come to mind here. More US citizens on both lists than all other nationalities combined, and absolutely no way to get removed from either, regardless of any boo boos on their part.

    After spending a whopping 30 seconds scanning that bill....Page 35, line 24 "demonstrate good cause for requesting a concealed firearm permit"

    I stand by my signature - NO NEW FIREARM LEGISLATION!
    Sticks

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    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    Please don't confuse what I said with support for any new legislation. I'm simply saying that faced with a choice of this legislation or the bill Feinstein is putting together that will basically tell us we cannot own modern firearms without registering them and paying a tax I'd pick this one.

    I can demonstrate great cause, print out a story about any violent crime- there's your good cause for requesting a concealed firearm permit!
    "The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines."
    - Lt. Col. Oliver North

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    Member Array RandyatOBX's Avatar
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    A LITTLE GUN HISTORY

    In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
    exterminated.

    Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

    China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

    You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

    Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late! The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

    With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'. During WW II the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

    If you value your freedom, please call your elected officials. It’s time for every law abiding red blooded American to defend our second amendment rights.


    SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
    SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT “and” THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.
    SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!
    IT'S A NO BRAINER!
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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyatOBX View Post
    ...

    SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
    SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT “and” THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.
    SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!
    IT'S A NO BRAINER!
    Almost accurate

    They do have very strict gun laws and permits are required to buy, own and carry - must prove need.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    "Primarily: a) establishes background checks for ALL firearm transaction, even personal FTF ones"
    If they would just enforce a "Background check" for firearm thieves they would cut back on a lot of firearms related crime. Can't help but to notice that all of the laws they keep pushing only intrude upon law abiding citizens. Why not: a) mandatory sentencing for being in possession of a stolen firearm, b) madatory sentencing for a felon in possession of a firearm. Doesn't it seem stupid to keep trying to stop crime by going after folks that don't commit crimes. Get tough on violent criminals and leave law abiding folks alone. Good grief.
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    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

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    VIP Member Array tkruf's Avatar
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    Give them an inch, they will take a mile!
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    So if I am interpreting this correctly 99% of us would lose our concealed carry permits. You would have to show that your life is in imminent danger and be able to prove it . That is the same law that they already have in New York. in New York the only people who can carry a concealed weapon are:: politicians-- X politicians --judge--x judge --X police officers-- prosecuting attorneys--x prosecuting attorneys-- and very rich people. So if that law was to pass most all of us would lose our concealed carry permit when they come up for renewal. So once again we would have double standards in this country do as I say not as I do. Why do I already feel like we are living under a dictatorship
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    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    An evil bill in Congress - HR 21

    Quote Originally Posted by tkruf View Post
    Give them an inch, they will take a mile!
    On a Carolina gun forum, people have taken up the mantra: "not one damned inch" in response to what are you willing to give.
    Betty and sdprof like this.

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    ‘‘(D) demonstrate that the applicant is
    worthy of the public trust to carry a concealed
    firearm in public"

    This to me is insane! SO we would have to justify to the public the right to defend ourselves and get their approval as part of the requirements to get permitted or renewal? This is just starting to go way too far! It's my choice to defend my family and myself, I don't need anyone's permission or trust for that matter.

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    None of these provisions will save a single life.

    This latest school shooter used guns he illegally obtained from a person who obtained them legally. He was not a concealed carry permit holder. He decided to murder people including his own mother, no law stops that kind of evil. If he couldn't get to a gun he would've used any number of a billion other potential weapons on this earth to carry out his plan.

    We need more laws against murder.
    NRA Life Member


    With great power comes great responsibility.-Stan Lee

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    Senior Member Array SigPapa226's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    Please don't confuse what I said with support for any new legislation. I'm simply saying that faced with a choice of this legislation or the bill Feinstein is putting together that will basically tell us we cannot own modern firearms without registering them and paying a tax I'd pick this one.

    I can demonstrate great cause, print out a story about any violent crime- there's your good cause for requesting a concealed firearm permit!
    They are counting on the "moderates" not accepting the really far left draconian bills. The strategy appears to be to put Feinsteins bill out there (with the outside chance that it passes) then compromise. By compromising the will ban the hi-cap magazines, get registration, get an assault weapons ban, etc. they just won't confiscate guns. They will end up with almost everything they want because our politicians will compromise vs look like they are "bloodthirsty".

    They outside chance for them to have any backbone is to write your Congressmen regularly as well as the leaders, etc. We cannot just be vigilant, we must be proactive in pushing our elected officials in the right direction.

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    Member Array tony1990's Avatar
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    That would be like putting a big sign in your yard telling crooks " I am leaving my door open for you, please just don't take too much at one time. "


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