Is a CCW permit considered registration - Page 2

Is a CCW permit considered registration

This is a discussion on Is a CCW permit considered registration within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; The required training in Wisconsin for a CCW license neither requires using a firearm, nor owning one. Any WI resident can take the class, send ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array MamaMaria's Avatar
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    The required training in Wisconsin for a CCW license neither requires using a firearm, nor owning one. Any WI resident can take the class, send in the application and $50, and receive the license. The CCW license covers stun guns and knives in WI (not permissible to carry otherwise here), so that's why I got it, right? I don't own any guns, they're yucky and scary...
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steffen View Post
    What if they aren't interested in the gun, but they're interested in the gun owners?
    In Texas there are a whole bunch of lobbyists who got their CHL just so they would not have to go through security checks in the Capitol. For some a carry permit is just like a first class boarding pass.

    Just like having a drivers license does not equal owning a car, a carry permit does not equal owning a gun.
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  3. #18
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    NO... my sis in law has her CWP.. but has no gun.... and no I don't know why she has a CWP and no gun.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    In Texas there are a whole bunch of lobbyists who got their CHL just so they would not have to go through security checks in the Capitol. For some a carry permit is just like a first class boarding pass.

    Just like having a drivers license does not equal owning a car, a carry permit does not equal owning a gun.
    If the situation got to the point where it was an actual civil war, would it benefit the government to target and eliminate the opposition's registered CCW permit holders?
    The problem with gun control is that drugs are already illegal.

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steffen View Post
    If the situation got to the point where it was an actual civil war, would it benefit the government to target and eliminate the opposition's registered CCW permit holders?
    Permit holders are not even a significant percentage of gun owners. And as I said there are a bunch of people that the politicians live off of that would be on their hit list. Would not be a good use of resources. If you are looking for some kind of license holder to go after, hunting licenses would be a better bet as most folks that have them are probably at least as competent if not more so with their hunting arms (typically long arms) as a carry permit holder.

    Who is more of a threat to the heavily armored jackbooted storm troopers, the guy with .380 pocket pistol or the elk hunter with his .300 win mag that routinely makes 400 yard one shot kills?
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Permit holders are not even a significant percentage of gun owners. And as I said there are a bunch of people that the politicians live off of that would be on their hit list. Would not be a good use of resources. If you are looking for some kind of license holder to go after, hunting licenses would be a better bet as most folks that have them are probably at least as competent if not more so with their hunting arms (typically long arms) as a carry permit holder.

    Who is more of a threat to the heavily armored jackbooted storm troopers, the guy with .380 pocket pistol or the elk hunter with his .300 win mag that routinely makes 400 yard one shot kills?
    I wasn't trying to advocate one type of permit holder over another, just trying to explore the idea of being able to use permit information to choose targets.
    The problem with gun control is that drugs are already illegal.

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steffen View Post
    I wasn't trying to advocate one type of permit holder over another, just trying to explore the idea of being able to use permit information to choose targets.
    Permits and licenses would be low effort but also low return. Holders of carry permits or hunting licenses are a very small percentage of gun owners. If we are delving deeply into fantasy land what they would do is seize the shipping records for all the on line accessory and ammo sellers and search the transaction histories from credit card companies for anything gun related.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Permits and licenses would be low effort but also low return. Holders of carry permits or hunting licenses are a very small percentage of gun owners. If we are delving deeply into fantasy land what they would do is seize the shipping records for all the on line accessory and ammo sellers and search the transaction histories from credit card companies for anything gun related.
    Would you at least agree that it would provide some sort of insight? I mean what is more effective than a name and address?
    The problem with gun control is that drugs are already illegal.

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    But if they went with the retail records they would have a name and address and what kind of weapons you could be expected to have. Like I said before people that do not have weapons get permits for various reasons. People generally don't buy 1,000 rounds of 7.62x39 or .50BMG unless they have something that shoots it.
    With the permit information all they know is where someone lived when the permit was issued. If I was hunting you I would rather have a shipping address from a week ago than a permit address from three years ago.
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  10. #25
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    Every time I buy a gun there is a big long government form that gets filled out. What happens to that? Seems like a form of gun registration to me. Of course I've sold or otherwise disposed of a number of guns, and there are no records of that.

    You really think that if the government wanted to identify and locate who has what guns they won't use any information they already have? And yes, that includes CCW permits too.

  11. #26
    Member Array steffen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    But if they went with the retail records they would have a name and address and what kind of weapons you could be expected to have. Like I said before people that do not have weapons get permits for various reasons. People generally don't buy 1,000 rounds of 7.62x39 or .50BMG unless they have something that shoots it.
    With the permit information all they know is where someone lived when the permit was issued. If I was hunting you I would rather have a shipping address from a week ago than a permit address from three years ago.
    Using retail records might get you better intel, but which process do you think would be faster?
    The problem with gun control is that drugs are already illegal.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin1155 View Post
    Every time I buy a gun there is a big long government form that gets filled out. What happens to that? Seems like a form of gun registration to me. Of course I've sold or otherwise disposed of a number of guns, and there are no records of that.

    ...
    Is it plausible that the form is secretly kept on file for future analysis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin1155 View Post
    ...

    You really think that if the government wanted to identify and locate who has what guns they won't use any information they already have? And yes, that includes CCW permits too.
    I agree with you here, that's exactly what I'm trying to get at.
    Last edited by steffen; January 8th, 2013 at 11:33 PM. Reason: made the first part a question
    niks likes this.
    The problem with gun control is that drugs are already illegal.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by steffen View Post
    I am of the opinion that registration is the first step towards confiscation, extermination, etc.

    Is getting a CCW and puting my name on file the first step towards my extermination?
    Things might vary by the state you live in, but I think I would say absolutely no, it is not gun
    registration.

    Here's my reasoning. In TX one must take a range test to get a license. It is common place for first time
    applicants to rent the gun they take the test with. The rest of the entire application makes no
    reference of any sort to what gun you used, whether you owned it or rented it.

    So, you take the test and weeks later the license arrives in the mail. You are then free to
    purchase your handgun from an FFL, or through a private sale. There probably are at least some
    people who get their license and never buy a gun; don't ask me why, but I know someone who
    is going through it all only because she is part of a social group that decided the ladies should do it
    as a "thing to do." She has already told me she won't be buying a gun; she's just going along for the "fun."

    Now, let's say you get your license and buy a gun or three or more. You do the NICS thingy etc.
    Nothing stops you from deciding you don't like what you bought and selling it as a private sale. Hence
    there is no connection between your license and what---if anything at all-- you own.

    That is how it works where I live. YMMV and probably does if you live in certain states.

    I don't fear gun confiscation. There are far more insidious ways to make gun ownership and use
    a miserably difficult business. Meanwhile, there is no public clamor for stopping ownership of weapons
    primarily designed for ordinary personal and home defense, or clearly designed for sporting purposes.

    Unlike HG and a few others here, I'm not spending a second worrying about confiscation.
    Last edited by Hopyard; January 8th, 2013 at 11:42 PM. Reason: grammar
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    You are registered as a gun owner. Your guns arent registered.

    Does it matter when push comes to shove what you have, or that you just have it?
    Not quite HG. You are "registered"as someone with a license to carry. That says nothing at all about
    whether or not you actually really truly own a gun. Sure, 95% of the time the two will go together, but
    there not only are folks who get a license and never buy a gun, there are folks who have licenses with
    long term expiration dates who at some point decide they need to pawn it, or give it away.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  15. #30
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    As long as the "registration" (or whatever it is) stays "in house" (meaning in my state) I don't worry about it too much. MI didn't grant me a CPL just so they could come up with some scheme to take it and all my guns away. However, if a bunch of meddling fools who live far away and don't understand or care about how people do business in my neighborhood get involved, it could become a problem. But, I think that's one way to fight it: as a states' rights issue. If the federal government is abusing the second amendment, I would hope that the states would file lawsuit after lawsuit and get the legislation shot down eventually. However, with the governor we have in MI, who is a republican but whose support of gun rights is, shall we say, uneven, I guess I'm not as confident as I'd like to be that MI would be part of this effort while he's in office.

    In short, I guess like a lot of people, I figure the gov't has me pretty well figured out already and if they respect my rights then everybody's happy. But I can certainly appreciate why many folks want to erase any record they can of their gun ownership.

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