Is a CCW permit considered registration - Page 4

Is a CCW permit considered registration

This is a discussion on Is a CCW permit considered registration within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by dshideler2000 No, my weapon is not registered when I purchase it from an FFL. When the NICS paperwork is filled out and ...

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Thread: Is a CCW permit considered registration

  1. #46
    Member Array steffen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dshideler2000 View Post
    No, my weapon is not registered when I purchase it from an FFL. When the NICS paperwork is filled out and called in the only reference to the firearm you buy is wether it is a long gun or handgun. No serial numbers, no manufacturers, not even the caliber of the the gun is recorded. They don't even distinguish between a rifle and a shotgun, just long gun.
    Can you guarantee that part or all of the information contained on that form is not retained? I understand that I can't use the "there's no proof against it, so it must exist" logic, but what I'm trying to get at is why do they go out of the way to say that they don't keep anything on file?
    The problem with gun control is that drugs are already illegal.


  2. #47
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Is a CCW permit considered registration
    Short answer: a rose is a rose is a rose.

    It certainly loudly proclaims a person's that sort. All it takes for such a person to be "registered" is for either (a) a state to have in its statutes nothing that precludes keeping the records of that CHL/application/prints on file forever, or (b) a state to ignore any such statutes limiting the duration of record-keeping about the CHL/application/prints.

    But then, irrespective of what a given state does, the USDOJ is at the end of the submission for background checks; and, if stated claims by FFL shops are to be believed, the USDOJ has every ability to retain records of background checks, NICS checks and prints well beyond any stated statutory limitations.

    So, registration or not? If by that you mean, on file and recognized as a CHL sort of person ... then, yes, I'd say it's essentially that.

    As to firearms registration, well any NICS check at a dealer submits your personal info along with the specific gun in question. Barring any willingness or statute to force destruction of such records after the check is completed, you're pegged as owning that gun. Registration? Yes, in a very real sense it is. Hard to claim it's not on file when it most certainly is.

    Asked another way: what would be the practical difference in being "on file" in a claimed registration scheme, versus what we've got now? To my way of thinking, nothing beyond the info-gathering methods (maybe) and the euphemisms used to give it a name.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; January 9th, 2013 at 12:19 PM. Reason: spelling
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  3. #48
    Member Array steffen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Short answer: a rose is a rose is a rose.

    It certainly loudly proclaims a person's that sort. All it takes for such a person to be "registered" is for either (a) a state to have in its statutes nothing that precludes keeping the records of that CHL/application/prints on file forever, or (b) a state to ignore any such statutes limiting the duration of record-keeping about the CHL/application/prints.

    But then, irrespective of what a given state does, the USDOJ is at the end of the submission for background checks; and, if stated claims by FFL shops are to be believed, the USDOJ has every ability to retain records of background checks, NICS checks and prints well beyond any stated statutory limitations.

    So, registration or not? If by that you mean, on file and recognized as a CHL sort of person ... then, yes, I'd say it's essentially that.

    As to firearms registration, well any NICS check at a dealer submits your personal info along with the specific gun in question. Barring any willingness or statute to force destruction of such records after the check is completed, you're pegged as owning that gun. Registration? Yes, in a very real sense it is. Hard to claim it's not on file when it most certainly is.

    Asked another way: what would be the practical difference in being "on file" in a claimed registration scheme, versus what we've got know? To my way of thinking, nothing beyond the info-gathering methods (maybe) and the euphemisms used to give it a name.
    Q: What would be the practical difference...?
    I don't think there really is any. The recent events with newspapers publishing private information about gun owners in New York are what got me thinking about this.

    How can anybody really be upset when information that the voluntarily disclose to somebody else ends up being released to the general public?
    The problem with gun control is that drugs are already illegal.

  4. #49
    Distinguished Member Array Hodad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin1155 View Post
    Every time I buy a gun there is a big long government form that gets filled out. What happens to that? Seems like a form of gun registration to me. Of course I've sold or otherwise disposed of a number of guns, and there are no records of that.

    You really think that if the government wanted to identify and locate who has what guns they won't use any information they already have? And yes, that includes CCW permits too.
    My thoughts too. As far as I know, each weapon I have purchased is registered at the time of purchase.

    Any weapon I sell on my own I create an informal hand written or typed sales receipt with the date, price, registration number of weapon, type of weapon, buyers name and signature. I keep it and put it in a file with all of my gun stuff. If the weapon is somehow used or misused in a
    future crime or incident I want to have proof I no longer own that weapon and I can give LE the person's name who I sold it to and last had it.
    "Life is tough but it's really tough if you are stupid"

  5. #50
    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
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    There is a present form of registration of all guns purchased thru a FFL and it is maintained by the FFL for a period of 20 years, it is called a ATF form 4473. If and when the FFL relinquishs his license all the ATF form 4473's including all of the bound books are surrendered to the ATF. Copies of these forms are available to the authorities thru a simply court order and is done so on a daily basis across the US.
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