James Yeager says "pack your bags" Updated - Page 16

James Yeager says "pack your bags" Updated

This is a discussion on James Yeager says "pack your bags" Updated within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Well, I am done discussing the Holocaust. It was a tragedy and like QKshooter said...it need not be discussed here..at least in this context. I ...

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  1. #226
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Well, I am done discussing the Holocaust. It was a tragedy and like QKshooter said...it need not be discussed here..at least in this context. I only posted what I did because folks keep posting the same statistics over and over again and they are flat out wrong.
    Using the Holocaust and in factual statements as a reason to keep our right to bear arms is just as bad as the anti's using infactual information about Newtown and other tragedies to further their agenda.
    Hopyard likes this.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

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  2. #227
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    It seems to me the core issue in this thread boils down to this, what does it really mean
    when we take the oath of office or citizenship (as we mostly all have) to preserve protect and defend the constitution of the United States?

    If that means following and obeying the laws passed by our elected officials and the ruling handed down by our judiciary,
    so long as the basic framework of the constitution and 200 + years of jurisprudence are observed, then we have an easy
    decision to make even if confiscatory laws were to be passed.

    If it means setting our own personal moral judgment ahead of our system for lawmaking, and ahead of the Constitution itself,
    as some here seem to think it does, then you (generic) and I have a fundamental disagreement about what constitutes
    honoring our oaths of office.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Germany= 1 to 2 million+/- Jews is not true according to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum and other reputable sources.

    Good thing you didn't put in the numbers that are normally associated with that "list". Some are greatly disproven.


    Don't get me wrong...it was an atrocity unlike any other. I just like the facts.
    German Jews during the Holocaust, 1939?1945
    Estimated Number of Jews Killed in The Final Solution

    The Number of Jews Killed During the Holocaust by Country

    Friend I was just going from memory. That's why I said I didn't do a search. That whole list was just off the top of my head.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Using the Holocaust and in factual statements as a reason to keep our right to bear arms is just as bad as the anti's using infactual information about Newtown and other tragedies to further their agenda.
    I disagree, to an extent. I don't believe it's necessarily accurate to say A+B=C (government agenda+disarm people= mass genocide), however there is a very valid argument in that much like many other 'oppressed' groups, the reigning governmental authority did regulate firearms out of the hands of those that they oppressed. Once a people is effectively defenseless against the governmental body that 'rules' it, they have no choice but to rely on its continued benevolence to remain free of oppression, and regardless of actual numbers there are many examples of that exact situation preceding the loss of benevolent governance.
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  5. #230
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Friend I was just going from memory. That's why I said I didn't do a search. That whole list was just off the top of my head.
    Of offense was intended. I was assuming you were remembering a list that has been posted on this forum and others for ever and the numbers are wrong or inflated.

    @TX epat: I understand your feelings but when folks (not you Actimmy) promote totally bogus numbers and basically flat out lie to try to make a point it is hard to take them seriously. Whenever I read anything and I find something untrue in it then I dig more and end up finding out more and more is not true.

    You can not combat the anti's with untruths...they might be on the wrong side of the fence on issues but many are not stupid. If one inflates a number of deaths by 10 or 20 or 50 then why would you listen to that persons arguments about the actual history of an event?
    Mike1956 likes this.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    The only way to support the US Constitution is to abide by the laws made by those elected and serving under its terms and conditions, and abide by the decisions of the judges and justices elected or appointed and confirmed to office. Anything less is not abiding by the oaths taken to uphold it.
    That is a blatant lie. Why would the second amendment exist if that were true Hopyard?
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Of offense was intended. I was assuming you were remembering a list that has been posted on this forum and others for ever and the numbers are wrong or inflated.

    @TX epat: I understand your feelings but when folks (not you Actimmy) promote totally bogus numbers and basically flat out lie to try to make a point it is hard to take them seriously. Whenever I read anything and I find something untrue in it then I dig more and end up finding out more and more is not true.

    You can not combat the anti's with untruths...they might be on the wrong side of the fence on issues but many are not stupid. If one inflates a number of deaths by 10 or 20 or 50 then why would you listen to that persons arguments about the actual history of an event?
    It is impossible to lie our way to the truth, regardless of our intent.
    suntzu likes this.
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  8. #233
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    Lightbulb

    OK, so let me see if I got this straight...

    Yeager lost his permit for his "2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms” and now he’s in trouble for speaking his mind. I guess he didn’t have a permit for his 1st Amendment Right to Free Speech or they'd have taken that away, too...

    Or maybe they just did?
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  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTreadOnI View Post
    That is a blatant lie. Why would the second amendment exist if that were true Hopyard?
    Think about what I posted before you use the L word toward me.

    You can not be a supporter of the constitution if you believe yourself to be above the laws passed by Congress and upheld
    by the courts. That makes you (generic) an outlaw, and not a supporter of our system.

    Again, the whole argument here turns on what it means to "preserve protect and defend the constitution." Some seem to think
    that gives them a personal right to decide that something is unconstitutional (despite USSC rulings contrary) and then falsely
    reason from that determination that they have a right to break the law and engage in some sort of armed resistance or rebellion. Such reasoning, if nothing else, could be very detrimental to your health and freedom. Ask the ghost of John Brown, who if nothing else was righteous in his beliefs.

    Just in case, since I've no clue about your age or eduction or especially that of others who might read here, John Brown wasn't a Rock or Hip Hop star. He paid for his righteousness at the end of a rope. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown_(abolitionist) and
    American Experience . John Brown's Holy War | PBS


    I've repeatedly answered your question many times here in many threads. 2A is not in the constitution to create an individual ability to rebel against the government. That was settled very very early on in our history; 70 years before the Civil War. The founders
    weren't fools or suicidal. The intended to create a government which endures, and such is impossible if folks think they can
    settle their grievances by means of violence instead of law.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    OK, so let me see if I got this straight...

    Yeager lost his permit for his "2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms” and now he’s in trouble for speaking his mind. I guess he didn’t have a permit for his 1st Amendment Right to Free Speech or they'd have taken that away, too...

    Or maybe they just did?
    This looks like a repeat post from much earlier in the thread.

    He didn't lose his license or his 1a speech rights. It is well
    established in law that the making of threats isn't free speech.

    Need an example, see what happens if you tell an LEO
    you'll kill him. That is what this Yeager basically said he would do. That is what is implied every time
    someone posts, "come and get it." He was wrong, and he lost.
    Too bad for him.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Of offense was intended. I was assuming you were remembering a list that has been posted on this forum and others for ever and the numbers are wrong or inflated.

    @TX epat: I understand your feelings but when folks (not you Actimmy) promote totally bogus numbers and basically flat out lie to try to make a point it is hard to take them seriously. Whenever I read anything and I find something untrue in it then I dig more and end up finding out more and more is not true.

    You can not combat the anti's with untruths...they might be on the wrong side of the fence on issues but many are not stupid. If one inflates a number of deaths by 10 or 20 or 50 then why would you listen to that persons arguments about the actual history of an event?
    I agree, however, just as an example, Actimmy's numbers were off, but by in large, they were off on the low side. Most of the Jewish loss occurred in Poland. Were these same people denied arms? Yes, they were confiscated after the occupation. Therefore, it's still a fair argument that if a governmental power wants to oppress a people, they must disarm those people.

    I do agree on getting our facts and statistics straight but I think the parallel is most certainly still there, it just has to be restated.
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  12. #237
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TX expat View Post
    I agree, however, just as an example, Actimmy's numbers were off, but by in large, they were off on the low side. Most of the Jewish loss occurred in Poland. Were these same people denied arms? Yes, they were confiscated after the occupation. Therefore, it's still a fair argument that if a governmental power wants to oppress a people, they must disarm those people.

    I do agree on getting our facts and statistics straight but I think the parallel is most certainly still there, it just has to be restated.
    Last I will say of this since folks keep replying.

    1.Actimmy's were WAY off and on the high side. He said German Jews. OK...not all Jews, and not all folks during the holocaust. I was very specific about that
    2. You do not count an occupying force as "the government". There is a world of difference. Poland got invaded and lost. The Germans would do what all countries do: confiscate arms. It is not an example of where YOUR own government takes weapons away from you. Therefore bringing upPoland and other occupied/defeated countries do not count.

    This thread is about Yeager opening up his big moouth. If there are arguments about governments getting involved in freedom of speach or anything like that it should be related to a current or former goevernment that had taken away rights or in weapons. Y
    Hopyard likes this.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Think about what I posted before you use the L word toward me.

    You can not be a supporter of the constitution if you believe yourself to be above the laws passed by Congress and upheld
    by the courts. That makes you (generic) an outlaw, and not a supporter of our system.

    Again, the whole argument here turns on what it means to "preserve protect and defend the constitution." Some seem to think
    that gives them a personal right to decide that something is unconstitutional (despite USSC rulings contrary) and then falsely
    reason from that determination that they have a right to break the law and engage in some sort of armed resistance or rebellion. Such reasoning, if nothing else, could be very detrimental to your health and freedom. Ask the ghost of John Brown, who if nothing else was righteous in his beliefs.

    Just in case, since I've no clue about your age or eduction or especially that of others who might read here, John Brown wasn't a Rock or Hip Hop star. He paid for his righteousness at the end of a rope. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown_(abolitionist) and
    American Experience . John Brown's Holy War | PBS


    I've repeatedly answered your question many times here in many threads. 2A is not in the constitution to create an individual ability to rebel against the government. That was settled very very early on in our history; 70 years before the Civil War. The founders
    weren't fools or suicidal. The intended to create a government which endures, and such is impossible if folks think they can
    settle their grievances by means of violence instead of law.
    Funny that you love to use the whole John Brown example since he was fighting against what he felt was unconstitutional and ironically enough he was correct, albeit posthumously. John Brown's actions are credited as one of the tipping points that kicked off our Civil War, which led to freedom for all Americans.

    You probably shouldn't use that argument any more Hop, because John Brown basically was right, and like many others that fought for what they believed in, he gave his life for his cause. He just happend to do it a little sooner than the others. So trying to say he's an example of what not to do isn't quite the dissuasive argument that you'd like it to be.
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  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Think about what I posted before you use the L word toward me.
    I don't think you are a liar and you obviously are very strong in your convictions. I do wonder though if you feel as strongly about our role in shaping the government and what we can do. I may be wrong but I don't think I've seen you encourage anyone to write their senator/representatives. You seem to have a take it as it comes attitude towards this whole thing. I hope I'm wrong about that. I believe we can do more than that and we can support the constitution by being as active as we can in the roles provided to us. Supporting the Constitution doesn't have to be passive. I feel this is a more complete truth.

  15. #240
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    The first vid was removed before I got to see it. I watched the second one. He seems to be pretty radical to say the least. His views will be used against the pro-gun people. Would you grant this man a carry permit after seeing this video? On the subject of gun confiscation, I hope there are very few Americans in law enforcement or the military who would actually try to enforce that. If another civil war ever begins in this country, it could be due to this. I do not believe Americans would stand for such an insane action by our government.
    I shoot with a pistol and a Canon. We must all hang together amigos, or we will all hang separately. NRA life member.

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