"Slow on the uptake, was I."

This is a discussion on "Slow on the uptake, was I." within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; said Yoda... or something like that. I mean, it's not an "AGENDA" or a "CONSPIRACY" ....It can't be... but.... c'mon... a conspiracy, a preordained agenda? ...

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Thread: "Slow on the uptake, was I."

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    "Slow on the uptake, was I."

    said Yoda... or something like that.

    I mean, it's not an "AGENDA" or a "CONSPIRACY"....It can't be... but.... c'mon... a conspiracy, a preordained agenda?

    It's just liberal folks thinking they must do SOMETHING and they just can't think objectively and reasonably and logically... All conservatives and moderates know that... The extremists just focus on what they think is the cure and you can't get them off their dime... And then we duke it out with them in the press and on the telly (with Piers, fer criminetly's sake). And we lose...

    But then, through the miracles of modern cough medications... Dayquil equivalent and a double dose of Nyquil equivalent last night... It came to me in a vision from God... or maybe just a waking dream... But now I see. It's a miracle, I tell ya... But I still have the cold.

    Okay, okay... Enough humor. this is a bit long... I like to research my notions and flesh them out. sit back, relax, read; and see what you think.

    I was thinking this morning about my recent trip to Arizona. On a commercial airline. I took my firearm with me... checked luggage... ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEMS... My one real gun caused less delay than my wife's 2 "FAKE" knees. she had to wait for a pat down... I didn't even have to open the TSA approved case to show 'em my gat was unloaded... EASY PEASY.

    Okay Charlie, so what's the point?

    The point is this... It's the history of airport security.

    In 1955 there was an airliner bombed in the US (bomb was on board the aircraft, planted by a son hoping to cash in on mom's life insurance)44 dead.

    1960 first suspected suicide bomber kills 34 by bringing down the aircraft with a suitcase bomb.

    1961 first hijacking of a US plane... to Cuba. Gov't starts placing armed guards on planes if requested by FBI or the airline.

    1969 several hijackings to Cuba... Must have been a bunch of cigar aficionados back then, too... FAA develops Psychological profile of hijackers, and suggests metal detectors...Eastern Airlines was first to implement.

    1970 First Sky Marshals on planes after Arab terrorists blow up planes on the ground after releasing all passengers.

    1971 D.B. Cooper

    1972 Lots of hijackings, and one bomb threat which was thwarted. Introduce bomb sniffing dogs... all carry on luggage must be run through metal detector or hand searched. Armed guards at boarding checkpoints

    1974 X-rays of carry-ons and metal detector screening of passengers. Because of a bomb that went off near a Ticket counter

    1988 X-rays of checked baggage and matching passenger to bag. Mostly because of Lockerbie (flight 103)

    2001 We all know what happened on 9-11... Just some box cutters...

    And the rest, as they say, is history...

    So what's the point, Charlie..? My popcorn's getting cold.

    The point is this.

    Over the decades of air travel during which numerous terrorist acts (and cheap tourists wanting "real" cigars) involving aircraft, we have not banned airplanes, or box cutters, or guns and ammunition on aircraft...

    We have tried to do a couple of things... We have made every effort, and increased those efforts, to keep madmen with guns or weapons from boarding planes. We have not banned guns (or any other potential weapons) on aircraft. We have simply not allowed the passengers to board with them in their possession.

    And, in case the madmen are inventive and creative and can figure out some new weapon with which to hijack an aircraft, we have secured the cockpit, armed the pilots (some anyway), and put armed security on board aircraft (some anyway).

    The target is not the objects they carry, but the PERPETRATORS... the PEOPLE... THE MADMEN... it is those we try to stop...

    Guns are on planes every day.... Some, I'm sure, are AR 15's, with every tactical weapon-of-war geegaw and option available... And some may even have 30 round, ahem, "clips" and one or two may even have a hundred round drum, packed in the case with the firearm. And most airlines, per TSA rules, will allow 11 POUNDS OF AMMUNITION to be packed with the weapon!

    We have to stop the people... simple really... banning the object will not stop terrorist acts. Stopping the people who commit them, will.

    The problem... Everybody hates TSA and the freedoms it curtails. But, we got a ton of folks working for TSA and a ton of technology to check for the objects... and it costs MONEY, lots of MONEY.

    There are more schools (probably) in the US than there are aircraft... But, we have got to protect the kids... and the best way to do that is to use the TSA model... modified but not cheap.

    On arrival to school, the kids have to go through metal detectors. And, probably have a school ID with picture and RFID chip.

    Armed security keeps everyone but teachers administrators and staff from entering the school without reason, and screening (just like the airport). Most everyone goes through the metal detectors.

    Some teachers and administrators, and staff (volunteers) are armed and trained to use the arms (just like some pilots). Once the majority of kids are in school... the school is locked down... seat backs and tray tables in the upright position, please.

    Others who have reason, and ID, and are known to the staff may be allowed into the school during the day... metal detectors, and screening by staff, escorted to the proper class, etc.

    Our children will be safe.

    Banning assault rifles, extended mags, and other objects, will only mean that some terrorist (or some kook) will innovate using non banned items like fertilizer and diesel fuel to take out a school. Even the boys at Columbine, during the last AWB, had bombs... bombs that never went off... in addition to their firearms.

    So, the solution is simple... it is expensive... and it does not infringe on our rights.

    The alternative is a direct grab for our rights. and will also be expensive, and may even cause a civil uprising.

    Whew... Now I have to parse this down to fit in a letter to the editor... and posting on facebook and letter to my senators, reps and POTUS.

    Sorry for the length.

    <edit> forgot the sources:
    http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun...eline-20110612

    http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-informat...and-ammunition
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    If you are serious about sending this to your government officials, you might want to double check your date of 1974 for Lockerbie.

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    And you might want to take the Yoda part out
    NRA Life Member

    "I don't believe gun owners have rights." - Sarah Brady

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreddy View Post
    If you are serious about sending this to your government officials, you might want to double check your date of 1974 for Lockerbie.
    fixeded it, thanks.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Yeah, the Lockerbie timeline seems a decade off, but other than a typo or two (and I'm as guilty as anyone for fat-fingering a keyboard) it's a quality product with, like, REAL thought and time put into it.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

    (Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay

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    Senior Member Array mano3's Avatar
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    I agree. It's just a shame we have to consider such measures because of a few nutjobs.
    US Air Force, 1986 - 2007

    "To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them..." George Mason

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    So you mean it's about the behaviors and not the instruments?
    Smitty
    NRA Endowment Member

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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    But that is rational and well thought. It will never fly.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

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    It is logical, rational and well thought out, but not practically implementable. Look at the cost of TSA alone.
    Look at the abuses perpetrated by TSA. Then apply that to x number of schools and teachers and to kids,
    and the nuts will merely move on to the malls (already did the theaters).

    The mental health aspect is where the work needs to be, it won't be easy, won't be cheap, and maybe can't be
    done at all for various reasons, but there would be benefits to society that would exceed the saving of life. At least a
    few of the nuts would perhaps get "repaired" to a point at which they are not only not a danger but are productive.

    Truth is, our problem needs a multi-pronged approach. Just focusing on security won't do it. Just focusing on
    guns or magazines, won't do it. Just focusing on mental health won't do it. Just hardening obvious targets (the ones
    last hit, a in closing the barn door after the horse is out) won't do it. And nothing can be done without the
    big bucks necessary, which presently few want to pay.
    highvoltage, mcp1810 and RichB70 like this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  11. #10
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Re: "Slow on the uptake, was I."

    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    So you mean it's about the behaviors and not the instruments?
    More about the people than behaviors... Act as crazy as you want, just can't have weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    But that is rational and well thought. It will never fly.
    Worth a shot, any way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    It is logical, rational and well thought out, but not practically implementable. Look at the cost of TSA alone.
    Look at the abuses perpetrated by TSA. Then apply that to x number of schools and teachers and to kids,
    and the nuts will merely move on to the malls (already did the theaters).

    The mental health aspect is where the work needs to be, it won't be easy, won't be cheap, and maybe can't be
    done at all for various reasons, but there would be benefits to society that would exceed the saving of life. At least a
    few of the nuts would perhaps get "repaired" to a point at which they are not only not a danger but are productive.

    Truth is, our problem needs a multi-pronged approach. Just focusing on security won't do it. Just focusing on
    guns or magazines, won't do it. Just focusing on mental health won't do it. Just hardening obvious targets (the ones
    last hit, a in closing the barn door after the horse is out) won't do it. And nothing can be done without the
    big bucks necessary, which presently few want to pay.
    This can't be good. I got two people telling me that my drug induced "visions" are well thought out.

    Hop, more of the excise taxes from ammo and firearms could be diverted...? Maybe... And a slight increase, if needed?
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  12. #11
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    Good article. I get your points and I think they make a lot of common sense...logical and rational. The problem is the government folks who have an agenda and have already made up their minds about the solutions and are not open minded to listen to other, better solutions.


    “Independence is my happiness, and I view things as they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the world, and my religion is to do good.” Thomas Paine


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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post

    Hop, more of the excise taxes from ammo and firearms could be diverted...? Maybe... And a slight increase, if needed?
    Not on my watch
    zacii likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Distinguished Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    fixeded it, thanks.
    And even more importantly, don't say "fixeded."

    "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."

    -miklcolt45

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    Progressives are immuned to logic and truth. I really don't believe that they can be educated.

    Either vote them out or be ruled by them.
    __________________________________
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    Holy Smokes! For the love of all that is good and holy, KEEP ALL TSA STUFF OUT OF SCHOOLS!

    I hate when people type with all caps. But really?

    I wholly reject the idea of pat downs and detectors at schools. Because when they fail to work, and they will, then they'll implement those body scanners there.

    You got it right on about the problem being the people, not the tools. But the TSA model is just more of the same, just like gun control. It won't work and it will just further erode our rights.

    The problem is we have criminals. Dirty, rotten, maggot infested, evil criminals. What we have to figure out is why people become criminals; why they choose evil. This fight begins and ends in the hearts and minds of the people.
    nedrgr21 likes this.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

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