For those of you who would vote Dem, or not at all, to spite the Republcans!

For those of you who would vote Dem, or not at all, to spite the Republcans!

This is a discussion on For those of you who would vote Dem, or not at all, to spite the Republcans! within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I just typed this whole thing out so I'm sharing here too! From American Rifleman, Nov., pg. 45: Here's just some of what they have ...

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Thread: For those of you who would vote Dem, or not at all, to spite the Republcans!

  1. #1
    Member Array Agencyman's Avatar
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    For those of you who would vote Dem, or not at all, to spite the Republcans!

    I just typed this whole thing out so I'm sharing here too!

    From American Rifleman, Nov., pg. 45:

    Here's just some of what they have planned for us.

    Federal Arsenal License: To possess more than 20 firearms, (and parts such as bolts would be regulated as firearms), 1000 rounds of ammunition, or just 1000 primers, you'd need a special $300.00 federal arsenal license. The three year license would require law enforcement approval and an extensive background check.

    BATFE Home Inspections: To get an "arsenal license", you'd have to be willing to open your home to inspections by BATFE three times a year.

    Small Handguns Banned: Possession of small caliber pistols and short-barreled revolvers would be banned. Also in jeopardy would be older guns, such as single-action revolvers, that lack prescribed safety devices.

    Magazines Banned: Bill Clinton's ban on magazines of more than ten rounds would be replaced with a ban on magazines that hold more than six rounds.

    Ammunition Banned: Ammunition determined to be "non sporting" would be banned. Any handgun ammunition left on the market would see a federal excise tax increase of 50%. Interstate mail order ammunition sales would be prohibited.

    Waiting Periods/Gun Rationing
    : There would be a national seven day waiting period on handguns and handgun ammunition sales, and you'd not be able to buy or transfer more than one handgun in any 30-day period.

    Registration: Buying a handgun, parts, or ammunition, would require a state issued photo-ID license. You'd have to provide fingerprints, pay a fee, and pass a firearm safety course to obtain a two year license. Buyers would have to "provide information necessary to regioster the handgun transfer. Transfer, (to an individual), of a handgun would require registering the transfer with the state's chief law enforcement officer.

    NOTE: I called this morning, and an NRA-ILA staffer told me that this was sourced from the Library of Congress' records. They are not yet bills put up. That would obviously be under the Pelosi, Kennedy, Schumer, Kerry, Conyers, Wexler regime.

    B.
    Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.-- Yoda
    G4W is now, be "Vigilant Always" - Bruce, (vet)USASA, NRA, IDPA, USPSA, IHMSA, & USCCA!


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Yea well when and if any of that actually get into a bill or on the floor of the house or senate for debate I might take it seriously. Until then I will consider it less than accurate and mostly bs.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  3. #3
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    ""If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an out right ban, picking up every one of them... "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, "I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here."
    --U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), CBS-TV's "60 Minutes," 2/5/95"

    Pelosi, Kennedy, Schumer, Conyers et al are right in step with Feinstein.

    If you wait for a bill to get to the floor under the leadership of this bunch, it will be far too late.

    We need to make sure the gun ban crowd does not get a majority in Congress, or we will see attacks on our rights, IMHO.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

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    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    I really think this thread is over the line as i understand it in regards to politics . so no comment from me till a mod or two chime inn
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  5. #5
    Member Array Agencyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs View Post
    I really think this thread is over the line as i understand it in regards to politics . so no comment from me till a mod or two chime inn
    ??? 'Second Amendment News & Discussions", seems appropriate.

    I will be puzzled, even as I apologize, if I have stepped over any lines because I was addressing a certain group.

    The material discussed comes from some of our leaders.

    It will impact the group here at this forum more than almost any others in the country.

    It was not an exhortation against anyone who supports "the other party', it was to some of those previously in mine.

    ???
    B.
    Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.-- Yoda
    G4W is now, be "Vigilant Always" - Bruce, (vet)USASA, NRA, IDPA, USPSA, IHMSA, & USCCA!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    ""If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an out right ban, picking up every one of them... "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, "I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here."
    --U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), CBS-TV's "60 Minutes," 2/5/95"

    Pelosi, Kennedy, Schumer, Conyers et al are right in step with Feinstein.

    If you wait for a bill to get to the floor under the leadership of this bunch, it will be far too late.

    We need to make sure the gun ban crowd does not get a majority in Congress, or we will see attacks on our rights, IMHO.

    Matt
    here are some 'others', that would be deciding policy:

    "We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society." -Hillary Clinton, 1993

    "I'm convinced that we have to have federal legislation to build on. We're going to have to take one step at a time, and the first step is necessarily — given the political realities — going to be very modest. Of course, it's true that politicians will then go home and say, 'This is a great law. The problem is solved.' And it's also true that such statements will tend to defuse the gun-control issue for a time. So then we'll have to strengthen that law, and then again to strengthen that law, and maybe again and again. Right now, though, we'd be satisfied not with half a loaf but with a slice. Our ultimate goal — total control of handguns in the United States — is going to take time. My estimate is from seven to ten years. The problem is to slow down the increasing number of handguns sold in this country. The second problem is to get them all registered. And the final problem is to make the possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition — except for the military, policemen, licensed security guards, licensed sporting clubs, and licensed gun collectors — totally illegal." -Pete Shields, Chairman and founder, Handgun Control Inc., "A Reporter At Large: Handguns," The New Yorker, July 26, 1976, 57-58

    "Yes, I'm for an outright ban [on handguns]." -Pete Shields, Chairman emeritus, Handgun Control, Inc., 60 Minutes interview

    "I honestly think — and I am not an expert on the amendments — I think the only people in this nation who should be allowed to own guns are police officers. I don't care if you want to hunt, I don't care if you think it's your right. I say, 'Sorry. It is 1999, we have had enough as a nation. You are not allowed to own a gun and if you do own a gun, I think you should go to prison.'" -Rosie O'Donnell, April 21, 1999

    "Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of Americans to feel safe." -U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein, quoted by the Associated Press, November 18, 1993

    "Because less than twenty years ago I was the target of a terrorist group. It was the New World Liberation Front. They blew up power stations and put a bomb at my home when my husband was dying of cancer. And the bomb didn't detonate. ... I was very lucky. But, I thought of what might have happened. Later the same group shot out all the windows of my home" "And, I know the sense of helplessness that people feel. I know the urge to arm yourself because that's what I did. I was trained in firearms. I'd walk to the hospital when my husband was sick. I carried a concealed weapon. I made the determination that if somebody was going to try to take me out, I was going to take them with me." -U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein, Democrat from California

    "Assault weapons... are a new topic. The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully-automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons — anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun — can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons." -Josh Sugarmann, "Assault Weapons: Analysis, New Research and Legislation", March 1989
    Keep in mind where they are coming from, they are Communists who don't admit to being so....

    "Every good Communist should know that political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. The Communist party must control the guns" -Mao Tse Tung (I happen to agree with Mao....as long as guns are in the peoples hands, they can't take control.....)
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  7. #7
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    If we stick to just discussing the listed ''goodies'' - and what ''goodies'' they are - should be fine. Shall we say, gun aspects over actual political.

    Main thing we want to avoid is a red vs blue fist fight
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

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    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    For those of you who would vote Dem, or not at all, to spite the Republcans!

    The title of the thread, seems pretty party oriented.

    Sort of implying that all democrats are anti gun. This kinda is a direct contradiction to the entry page of the forum.

    No. Men and women, young adults and senior citizens, blue collar and white collar, Republicans and Democrats, black, white and brown, religious or not are all represented in the profile of those that hold a CCW. None of us are immune to the potential of violent crime. With very few exceptions, we are the good guys.

    Maybe the thread should have listed specific people that should not be voted for instead of the party as whole. You tell me.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  9. #9
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Yea Chris , that was my concern given the thread title . That being said and since the thread is reviewed by a mod now LOL ..... If I have my facts straight the above so called plan was a discussion paper of some sort early in the clinton administration . IMHO a lot has changed in the intervening years , and We are ill served by the nra dredging up ancient history in a scare tactic . We would be far better served focusing on the expansion of shall issue states and the impact on crime from that .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    No. Men and women, young adults and senior citizens, blue collar and white collar, Republicans and Democrats, black, white and brown, religious or not are all represented in the profile of those that hold a CCW. None of us are immune to the potential of violent crime. With very few exceptions, we are the good guys.
    An excellent point.

    I think the focus should not be on the party, but on the candidate's position on gun control.

    Any candidate espousing support for gun control measures like the Assault Weapons Ban will not get my vote, even if I dislike the opposing candidate.

    I'd prefer to abstain than to support a gun grabber.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

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    VIP Member Array sgtD's Avatar
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    I will try to remain apolitical as requested and am not advocating for anyone.

    The fact that threre are good folks (2nd amend wise) in both parties is understood, and I know of some house and senate Dems who are pro-gun, Dingle D-MI is the 1st to come to mind and God love ole Zell Miller. And the other party is the same with antis like Julianni, and turncoats like McCain.
    The problem is that the Leadership of one party, Kennedy, Schumer, Fienstein, Conyers, Waters, are all anti extremists. They set the agenda when in majority and don't forget the Supreme Court. That being said, if they are pro 2A, I move to other issue to make ny discisiion, but 2A is always first with me.

    As American voterswe have to work to get pro 2A people elected and get rid of antis, regardless of party.

    If any of this is out of line, please delete it.
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

  12. #12
    Member Array Agencyman's Avatar
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    As for the thread title, I should have made it clear I was talking to Republicans, or independents. It was an issue about the tactics of voting or abstaining.

    I figured the "spite" word signalled I was NOT talking to Dems, because they have their own reasons tp vote for their party.

    Quote Originally Posted by Farronwolf
    Sort of implying that all democrats are anti gun.
    I don't believe that. (I would believe the reverse was to a large percentage true).



    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs
    and We are ill served by the nra dredging up ancient history in a scare tactic .

    AND

    We would be far better served focusing on the expansion of shall issue states and the impact on crime from that
    It is not ancient history! It is about to be on the front burner again, if the House changes leadership names. It's a control thing.

    AND

    I would love to look forward that way, but if the anti's have their way, we'll lose so much that's just been gained.

    Quote Originally Posted by sgtD
    As American voterswe have to work to get pro 2A people elected and get rid of antis, regardless of party.
    I'm with you all the way.


    So here's that five year plan alluded to, close to the article this month I quoted.

    NOTE!!! THIS is DATA and INFO. This is not an attempt to be political, this is to allow folks to know as much as possible about what others have in mind to impose. Regardless of party, anti's are anti's.
    by Alan Korwin, Author

    October 16, 2006

    THE FIVE YEAR PLAN:

    1. National Licensing of all handgun purchases.

    2. Licenses for Rifle and Shotgun owners.

    3. State Licenses for ownership of firearms.

    4. Arsenal Licenses (5 guns and 250 rounds of ammunition).

    5. Arsenal License Fees (at least $300.00, with a cap of $1,000.00).

    6. Limits on Arsenal Licensing (None in counties with populations of more than 200,000).

    7. Requirement of Federally Approved Storage Safes for all guns.

    8. Inspection License. (Gun safe licenses, yearly fee for spot inspections).

    9. Ban on Manufacturing in counties with a population of more than 200,000.

    10. Banning all military style firearms.

    11. Banning Machine Gun Parts or parts which can be used in a Machine gun.

    12. Banning the carrying a firearm anywhere but home or target range or in transit from one to the other.

    13. Banning replacement parts (manufacturing, sale, possession, transfer, installation) except barrel, trigger group.

    14. Elimination of the Curio Relic list.

    15. Control of Ammunition belonging to Certain Surplus Firearms. (7.62x54R and .303).

    16. Eventual Ban of Handgun Possession..

    17. Banning of Any ammo that fits military guns (post 1945).

    18. Banning of any quantity of smokeless powder or black powder which would constitute more than the equivalent of 100 rounds of ammunition.

    19. Ban the possession of explosive powders of more than 1 kg. at any one time.

    20. Banning of High Powered Ammo or Wounding ammo.

    21. A National License for Ammunition.

    22. Banning or strict licensing of all re-loading components.

    23. National Registration of ammunition or ammo buyers.

    24. Requirements of special storage safe for ammunition and licensing.

    25. Restricting Gun Ranges to counties with populations less than 200,000.

    26. Special Licensing of ranges.

    27. Special Range Tax to visitors. ($85.00 per visit per person).

    28. Waiting period for rentals on pistol ranges.

    29. Banning Gun Shows.

    30. Banning of military reenactments.

    PLUS:

    Ban of all clips holding over 6 bullets.

    Elimination of the Dept. of Civilian Marksmanship.

    Ban on all realistic replica and toy guns (including "air soft" and paintball).

    The right of gun-violence victims to sue, with financial assistance from government programs, the gun manufacturers.

    Taxes on ammo, dealers, guns, licenses to offset medical costs to society.

    The eventual ban on all semi-automatics regardless of when made or caliber.
    B.
    Last edited by Agencyman; October 20th, 2006 at 12:43 PM.
    Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.-- Yoda
    G4W is now, be "Vigilant Always" - Bruce, (vet)USASA, NRA, IDPA, USPSA, IHMSA, & USCCA!

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Well we will have to agree to disagree on this one i guess. IMHO none of the run of the mill polotitions of any party are going to toutch gun control in this manner , the awb cost the dems heavily and the lesson still smarts them . Also I will note that the article as you posted it is incomplete , the original clearly states
    Itís time to remember what the Democrat party generally seeks regarding guns and gun rights. The list below was widely circulated while Clinton was in power.
    and may be viewed at http://www.gunlaws.com/Left-wing%20Gun%20Plan.htm
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  14. #14
    Member Array Agencyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs View Post
    Well we will have to agree to disagree on this one i guess. IMHO none of the run of the mill polotitions of any party are going to toutch gun control in this manner , the awb cost the dems heavily and the lesson still smarts them
    Could you elaborate just a tiny bit on that? P.M. is OK, if you wish to let this one die out.. I obviously fear a renewed attack, but evidence to the contrary would be welcome.

    . Also I will note that the article as you posted it is incomplete , the original clearly states and may be viewed at http://www.gunlaws.com/Left-wing%20Gun%20Plan.htm
    It came to me in an email from someone I trust to get the main points right. Possibly he utilized a bit of "politerary license"! :)

    B.
    Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.-- Yoda
    G4W is now, be "Vigilant Always" - Bruce, (vet)USASA, NRA, IDPA, USPSA, IHMSA, & USCCA!

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    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    No need to go to pm , since I am sure many are keeping up with the thread . If you will remember the groundswell of outrage over the AWB during the clintonian days and the changes in the following elections . Folks were outraged by the provisions , and took the outrage to the polls with them , It was dammed near suicidal of the democratic party as a whole , and certainly alienated a large ( perhaps the largest ) block of democrats . IMHO most folks are not democrats , or republicans , or any other party... Most of us are moderate in our views and the radicals of either party do not represent us , or our views on most issues . In the day of hotbutten sound bytes and 24 hr news cycles we mostly stumble along and vote our conscience on the issues that matter to us while the radical elements of both sides pummel us with supposed " facts" , skewed statistics , and outright lies in order to sway us thro fear . IMHO its good to look back at where we have come from , but to put an immediacy on it like nothing has changed in the years since is akin to the crap about dodge city in the streets , and blood running in the gutters that the libs trot out every time shall issue comes up .
    As responsible ccw proponents we need to look at the canadates voting record before all else , then what is said ( not just this year but in the past as well ) and then vote for the canadate we can live with . After its all said and done , Refusing to vote is simply giving a vote to the most objectionable canadate . If you don't mind this it is certainly your right as an American , but for me I will diligently try and pick the lessor of evils if it comes to the point that I cannot fully support either canadate . And to bring it back on topic , no matter the party , the canadate who supports gun rights gets my vote .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

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