This is what we're up against.

This is a discussion on This is what we're up against. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Average citizen. Wants reasonable people discussing gun control. He sees Alex Jones on Piers Morgan... He fears that Alex is "representative of many pro-gun people." ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    This is what we're up against.

    Average citizen. Wants reasonable people discussing gun control.

    He sees Alex Jones on Piers Morgan... He fears that Alex is "representative of many pro-gun people."

    I guess it's good he didn't see Yeager, huh?

    This average citizen, since he took the time to write to his local paper, may very well take the time to write his senators and congressmen... and the POTUS. In support of stricter gun control.

    He doesn't know much about anything gun-wise, I'm sure. He knows the constitution well enough to correct some "gun clinger" who misquotes the 2nd Amendment...

    He quotes what he hears... the statistics he hears... from those that are very busy with their bully pulpit spreading lies and half truths about how guns are purchased through loop holes.. and so on...

    I intend to write the author of the letter and offer such a discussion... perhaps he would be willing to listen to a "reasonable person" discussing the issue without "Emotional rants, simplistic clichés and dishonesty..."

    Sometimes, it has to be done one on one, face to face... on neutral ground.

    Here's his letter... I'll post my reply tomorrow, I hope. Link to letter

    I really don't believe this is a waste of time... If the letter writer is being honest... And even if he's not, I will present through my writing... and in person, if the writer allows... a normal guy.. just like him... but one who believes in our second amendment, and who is willing to have a reasonable discussion.
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
    __________________________________________________
    "The History of our Revolution will be one continued Lye from one end to the other."
    John Adams

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Exacto's Avatar
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    Yes, same thing, probably same people that put that scoundrel in office twice. Mind numbed robots parroting what they hear from the fringe and applying it to all. and all the facts and statistics in the world don't mean a thing to them. They heard somebody, dosen't matter who, say it and that's it.
    SpringerXD likes this.
    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunder bolt...... Sun Tzu.

    The supreme art of war is to defeat the enemy without fighting........ Sun Tzu.

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Well, I just spoke to the author on the phone, asking permission to write to him in response to his letter...

    It did not take long for him to go off the deep end. As he soon started into a diatribe about the "gun show loophole."

    I'll still send him the letter, and offer a reasonable discussion of the topic... but I'm afraid it will end up in the circular file... I offered him what he claimed to want, reasonable discussion. He informed me that there was no disconnection of my cel signal, he was hanging up because he did not wish to discuss it any further.


    Sigh

    Shame, that.

    Exacto, you may indeed be dead on.
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
    __________________________________________________
    "The History of our Revolution will be one continued Lye from one end to the other."
    John Adams

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Here's his letter... I'll post my reply tomorrow, I hope. Link to letter
    Corrected the link (above) to actually link to the story.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  6. #5
    Member Array Crowbait's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Well, I just spoke to the author on the phone, asking permission to write to him in response to his letter...

    It did not take long for him to go off the deep end. As he soon started into a diatribe about the "gun show loophole."

    I'll still send him the letter, and offer a reasonable discussion of the topic... but I'm afraid it will end up in the circular file... I offered him what he claimed to want, reasonable discussion. He informed me that there was no disconnection of my cel signal, he was hanging up because he did not wish to discuss it any further.


    Sigh

    Shame, that.

    Exacto, you may indeed be dead on.
    I'm sorry to hear that Oak You're right it is a shame; a dowgawn shame.
    “A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” --George Washington

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    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Yeah, I have found that quite often the invitation to have an objective, honest, and constructive discussion about anything really means "Let me convince you that I am right and you are wrong."

    The flip side of that is we (gun enthusiasts, Second Amendment advocates, whatever you want to call "us") should make sure we don't do the same thing. I hate to pull a Suntzu buzz kill...
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
    Clint Eastwood

  8. #7
    Member Array GeorgiaShooter's Avatar
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    Some things liberals and robots should read. From an org in Georgia I believe is FAR more in tune with the truth and our rights than even the NRA

    Racist roots of gun control
    Georgia Carry : An information clearinghouse for Georgia Firearms License issues and news » The Racist Roots of Gun Control

    Guns and children WE HAVE BEEN LIED TO. This highlights the lies the left propagates in the media. Real children death stats, not lies.
    Georgia Carry : An information clearinghouse for Georgia Firearms License issues and news » Guns And Children

    QUOTE facts the media doesn't want to face.....
    "By focusing on vehicle safety, teaching children how to swim, and maintaining smoke detectors, we can eliminate over 74% of the risk factors to our children"

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Re: This is what we're up against.

    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Corrected the link (above) to actually link to the story.
    What happened?
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
    __________________________________________________
    "The History of our Revolution will be one continued Lye from one end to the other."
    John Adams

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    Member Array 8th ID's Avatar
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    I hate to say it, but after reading his letter, He's NOT going to change his mind OR accept any facts. I would like to know WHERE this 40% number comes from. How can you get a number from something that doesn't exist (no BGC)? And I would like these people to know that IF anyone goes to a gun show and the person SELLING the gun is a FFL dealer, there WILL be a background Check-AT A GUN SHOW!!! DANG!!!!
    SOLD my guns.
    Proud owner of a 12lb. Chinese pug that is DANGEROUS and is soon to be registered!

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    I dont think you can sway an anti gunner. Maybe someone on the fence but anyone that is against guns will be against guns no matter what you say or do. Thankfully it is a minority of Americans that feel that way. A vocal minority but still a minority.
    Honestly I think Obama may do what he can through EO then get that taken to court by NRA or some such and probably struck down in time. All of this is just such a pain the south end of a north bound camel.
    Nothing they say or do about guns is any more than plain foolishness.

  12. #11
    Member Array Clodbert's Avatar
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    We're up against people who substitute logic for emotion; informed discussion for facile nonsense, baseless ad hominem attacks, and threats; historical evidence and broad perspective for meaningless associations of cherry-picked data. A reasonable onlooker would wager that we should win the argument handily, but the sheer amount of ignorance by such a large percentage of our society is overwhelming.

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    this is the body of the letter I sent to the author of the Gazette LTE.

    I would like to offer my apology for getting you so upset that you felt the need to hang up on me yesterday.

    I too had hoped that two people could have a reasonable discussion of the gun control topic… Alas, you and I apparently cannot. Shame, that.

    I also wanted to thank you for pointing me to the interview with NRA President Keene on State of the Union. I did watch the video on CNN’s website and discovered that Mr. Keen did say that we MUST get the data into the NICS checks that would stop prohibited buyers from purchasing firearms… And that the NRA has always promulgated the view that certain mentally adjudicated persons should not have access.

    I understand your concerns about the face to face sales of firearms requiring background checks. And, in an ideal world, that would be wonderful. But the fact of the matter is, just like requiring tax stamps on drugs, criminals ignore any such law.

    While your figure of 40% of firearm sales happening without background checks may be correct, it’s a number that is impossible to determine with any accuracy; simply because no record of the transaction occurs. It is just as likely that a great number of those sales are perfectly legal, between lawful citizens, or in gifting to an heir (or relative or friend), for example.

    Thank you for your time. This is an emotionally charged issue and I had so hoped that we would be able to have an unemotionally charged discussion about it. In the end, we may have had to “agree to disagree” and neither one of us may have changed our mind… and still been able to part ways acquaintances, if not friends.

    For the record, sir, I am not a member of the NRA or any other gun organization. Any firearms I own would not be affected under a new AWB, save one; a pistol which holds more than 10 rounds in its magazine.

    Sincerely yours,
    Brad426 likes this.
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
    __________________________________________________
    "The History of our Revolution will be one continued Lye from one end to the other."
    John Adams

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    this is the body of the letter I sent to the author of the Gazette LTE.
    You tried and you did well. Now go outside and yell at the wind to stop blowing.
    oakchas, oakchas, oakchas and 2 others like this.
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
    Clint Eastwood

  15. #14
    Ex Member Array Bullet1234's Avatar
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    Wasting your time & breathe, they already know GUN LAWS ONLY EFFECT LAW AIDING PEOPLE
    It is just a start point to grab power, remove the guns are we all BECOME SUBJECTS again.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad426 View Post
    You tried and you did well. Now go outside and yell at the wind to stop blowing.
    That would require cutting down the trees.. They cause the wind.... don't you know nuttin'? You gun clinger, you!
    Crowbait likes this.
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
    __________________________________________________
    "The History of our Revolution will be one continued Lye from one end to the other."
    John Adams

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