A question to you Permanent Residents (and others).

This is a discussion on A question to you Permanent Residents (and others). within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I've been over here for about four and ahalf years and have had my permanent resident card for nearly three years. I have a CHL ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 35

Thread: A question to you Permanent Residents (and others).

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    568

    A question to you Permanent Residents (and others).

    I've been over here for about four and ahalf years and have had my permanent resident card for nearly three years. I have a CHL and I would say that I have bought around 10 guns thorugh FFL's in my time.

    My CHL permit has always exempted me from the NICS process, so other than the first two guns I bought, everything else has required no check since I had my CHL by then.

    Now, my wife is getting her CHL, so she decided that she likes my Sig P239. So, I decide I need another gun and decided on a GLOCK 23.

    Went down to my local gun store today, handed over my CHL, green card, Drivers licence and three months of bills (like I have so many times before) and they say that they have to call it in. I reminded them I have a CHL and have bought many guns in the past, including from there and have never had to have it called in before.

    The FFL even went and double checked. She said that now, apparently they check for 'activity on my green card' to see if I have done any travelling. That is to say, if I go to the UK for a vaction, I get a 'Deny'. Even though I have a CHL and haven't had to have a NICS check in a long time. I haven't been out of the country since I got here in 2002, but I still got a 'Delay'

    Now, I have never heard of this 'rule'. Personally, I think she may have an overzealous local ATF reperesentative. I'm curious to know if other Permanent Residents have had similar issues recently.

    Despite the recent citizen\Permanent resident thread and whatever your views may be, what we have here is a potential case of BATFE implementing new 'laws' that are not on our statutes.

    I'm not so concerned about the practicalities of the delay. I have no shortage of protection and would not have been able to range test it until next weekend, but it's the principle. It's this thin end of the wedge crap that leads to bigger, wider reaching rules.

    Any comments welcomed.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Senior Member Array blueyedevil's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    615
    Well, I have to say, I agree with the new regulation. If you wish to be afforded all the same rights and priviledges of a U.S. citizen, please by all means obtain your citizenship. The Idea that a non-citizen has to be called in when buying a firearm doesn't bother me in the slightest. It may be inconvenient to you, but I think it's a rather common sense measure.

  4. #3
    Member Array GarySlinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    96
    Quote Originally Posted by blueyedevil View Post
    Well, I have to say, I agree with the new regulation. If you wish to be afforded all the same rights and priviledges of a U.S. citizen, please by all means obtain your citizenship. The Idea that a non-citizen has to be called in when buying a firearm doesn't bother me in the slightest. It may be inconvenient to you, but I think it's a rather common sense measure.
    You might want to do a little searching and read a recent thread about immigrants with guns - understand that we (perm resident folks) have been through a HELL of a lot of screening that Joe Q. Public hasn't been through. Understand futher that the Constitution that enumerates your right to keep & bear arms does NOT discriminate against non-Citizens.

    As for the NICS thing - it varies, state by state, and the regulations change from time to time. Here, I have to remember to take three months worth of utility bills with me, even with the CCW, to show that I have "current" residency; it's a bit "silly" in the sense that I can leave for up to six months, and maintain auto-payment here, but it makes an element of sense in the overall picture.

    G.

    Edited to add: getting citizenship is certainly on the list of a lot of us, but there's a hard limit of three years if you marry an American, or five years if you don't, between Permanent Residency & Citizenship.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Array blueyedevil's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    615
    Quote Originally Posted by GarySlinger View Post
    Understand futher that the Constitution that enumerates your right to keep & bear arms does NOT discriminate against non-Citizens.
    I would beg to differ with you there, a non citizen is not a member of "we, the people of the United States of America". And though many civil rights are afforded non-citizens (as they should be), many are not, such as the right to vote, hold public office, etc. (also as it should be). And if John Q. U.S. citizen is required to submit to a background check to buy a firearm, I don't think it's a whole lot to complain about if it is required for a non-citizen also. I understand that you have already been screened many times to be allowed in the country. But guess what, I've been screened a whole lot in my lifetime too, And I still have to submit to a background check every time I buy a firearm (in spite of my CHL, as well as other things which require extensive background screening). So from my point of view, I don't see a problem with it.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    568

    A clarifiction

    Blue,

    Maybe I wasn't clear on my point. My point wasn't about the background check per se, but about the fact that someone (BATFE I'm guessing) has gone up with a new rule without a stature to back it up. Next, it will be some other rule, maybe people who have a poor credit score?

    I mean, I'm hardly gojng to fail the check if I have my CHL anyway am I? Not unless visiting another country has become a reason for failing the check, which according to what I was told, it has.

    And, additionally, 'The people of the United States' also includes non citizens. Thats why the constitution uses the word Citizen in some places and people in others. That has already been established many years ago.

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Away - Health Problems
    Posts
    17,353
    Can't Say my permit was issued before the date that exempts me from nics check i get run everytime

    So its no big deal to me

  8. #7
    Assistant Administrator
    Array P95Carry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    South West PA
    Posts
    25,482
    Prior to getting my citizenship I had been out of the country twice - when my Mom died in 2003 and I had to make two trips over to clear things up.

    Despite that I had no hassles after when getting firearms purchases - tho my local FFL just dialed thru and gave my DL info - and that was it.

    I had heard about ''things" after green card holders had travelled but all I had to do with paperwork when applying for citizenship was outline my reasons for having been out and back in.

    Seems like some clarification is needed in your case.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Array blueyedevil's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    615
    Quote Originally Posted by Fragman View Post
    Blue,

    Maybe I wasn't clear on my point. My point wasn't about the background check per se, but about the fact that someone (BATFE I'm guessing) has gone up with a new rule without a stature to back it up. Next, it will be some other rule, maybe people who have a poor credit score?

    I mean, I'm hardly gojng to fail the check if I have my CHL anyway am I? Not unless visiting another country has become a reason for failing the check, which according to what I was told, it has.

    And, additionally, 'The people of the United States' also includes non citizens. Thats why the constitution uses the word Citizen in some places and people in others. That has already been established many years ago.
    I would like to know when, where and what you seem to think is established, was in fact established. I don't mind a little research.

    Comparing a citizen's credit score and a being a resident alien is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. The Idea that non-citizen's are granted the RIGHT to keep and bear arms inside the border of this country seems a bit laughable to me. You can imagine the implications (as well as many other constitutionaly enumerated rights). So have some civil rights been granted, yes, all of them no. I think this discussion falls under the "no" category. Correct me if I'm wrong.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    568
    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry View Post
    Prior to getting my citizenship I had been out of the country twice - when my Mom died in 2003 and I had to make two trips over to clear things up.

    Despite that I had no hassles after when getting firearms purchases - tho my local FFL just dialed thru and gave my DL info - and that was it.

    I had heard about ''things" after green card holders had travelled but all I had to do with paperwork when applying for citizenship was outline my reasons for having been out and back in.

    Seems like some clarification is needed in your case.
    Well, these are good guys at this gun store. They are trying to do everything by the book as of course they should They don't want to lose their FFL and doing it right means that they are still there in the future for my gun purchasing needs.

    I had just never heard about the 'if you have travelled, you will be get a deny' rule. Maybe it's a new regulation after that guy was buying dozens of 50 cals and shipping them back to Bosnia. Who knows. Maybe the lady was mistaken and it is 'excessive travelling'

    Like I said, it's not the actual check, but the fact that the regulation is there when it wasn't before. And I didn't hear of any new law or see anything on the 4473 to indicate this new rule.

    Guys, I've SEEN what happens when you bring in gun controls incrementally. What happens next when they start denying anyone who has travelled in the last 90 days? Citizen or not? Tim McVeigh was a citizen. Then it gets extended to 120 days, 6 months, 3 years?

    These things happen in small steps. And that I guess is my point.

  11. #10
    Assistant Administrator
    Array P95Carry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    South West PA
    Posts
    25,482
    I would in your situation be concerned yes. It just seems beyond what we'd expect.

    I do hope you can get some clarification tho which might dispell current concerns.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  12. #11
    VIP Member
    Array Miggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Miami-Dade, FL
    Posts
    6,258
    As a resident, you cannot stay out of the country for a period longer than 180 days per year. Doing that invalidates your status and all benefits that you hold as Resident. Maybe that is what they are looking for and taking so long since they may have to go through State Department to check and they are not the sharpest tools in the shed, you know?

    The Idea that non-citizen's are granted the RIGHT to keep and bear arms inside the border of this country seems a bit laughable to me.
    Blue:
    I just hope you do not find laughable those non-citizens bearing arms for the USA in Iraq and Afghanistan and yes, even inside the border of the USA.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  13. #12
    Member Array GarySlinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    96
    Quote Originally Posted by blueyedevil View Post
    The Idea that non-citizen's are granted the RIGHT to keep and bear arms inside the border of this country seems a bit laughable to me. You can imagine the implications (as well as many other constitutionaly enumerated rights). So have some civil rights been granted, yes, all of them no. I think this discussion falls under the "no" category. Correct me if I'm wrong.
    You're wrong. The Constitution doesn't grant rights, per se, it enumerates them. It also doesn't enumerate the rights of folks born here, it enumerates basic human rights. You're also wrong from a purely legal standpoint - I'm a non-citizen and I hold a CCW, and posess firearms. So, "No"? I think not.

    Go through the Constitution itself, and notice the specific uses of terms and phrases such as "Citizen of the United States", "Inhabitant of that State", "Person" (specifically vs. "Citizen"), "natural born Citizen", "people" (again, specifically vs. "Citizen").

    From a legal perspective, a Permanent Resident is everything a Citizen is, bar the voting, Jury Duty & "serving" in Congress & the Senate, plus the Presidential thing (the "natural born" bit above). We're subject to Selective Service, etc.

    The Constitution and its Amendments are a remarkably thorough document.

    G.

  14. #13
    Member Array GarySlinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    96
    Quote Originally Posted by blueyedevil View Post
    I would beg to differ with you there, a non citizen is not a member of "we, the people of the United States of America". And though many civil rights are afforded non-citizens (as they should be), many are not, such as the right to vote, hold public office, etc. (also as it should be). And if John Q. U.S. citizen is required to submit to a background check to buy a firearm, I don't think it's a whole lot to complain about if it is required for a non-citizen also. I understand that you have already been screened many times to be allowed in the country. But guess what, I've been screened a whole lot in my lifetime too, And I still have to submit to a background check every time I buy a firearm (in spite of my CHL, as well as other things which require extensive background screening). So from my point of view, I don't see a problem with it.
    1. Yes, non-Citzen's ARE "we, the people of the United States", under Constitutional law.

    2. "Public Office" is too broad a term. Many public offices ARE open to non-Citizens. Some are explicitly not, such as POTUS. I've got no issue with that.

    3. I never indicated complaint about background checks. I was merely pointing out that we are, under most State laws, "better" ("additionally") checked-out than Joe Q. Public. I don't have a particular issue about it, it doesn't cause me more than a 30 minute delay in purchase; it's a relevant point to this discussion, however.

    G.

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    568
    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    As a resident, you cannot stay out of the country for a period longer than 180 days per year. Doing that invalidates your status and all benefits that you hold as Resident. Maybe that is what they are looking for and taking so long since they may have to go through State Department to check and they are not the sharpest tools in the shed, you know?

    Hmm, maybe that might have something to do with it. Never been an issue till today. Maybe they (being our government) are just taking extra precautions to make sure that people don't slip through the net. God only knows that makes sense. At least what you've mentioned makes sense from a legal perspective.

    And you saved me bringing up the point about the fact that many non-citizens are already fighting for this country and also are just as likely to be called to fight as a citizen.

  16. #15
    Member Array GarySlinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    96
    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    As a resident, you cannot stay out of the country for a period longer than 180 days per year. Doing that invalidates your status and all benefits that you hold as Resident. Maybe that is what they are looking for and taking so long since they may have to go through State Department to check and they are not the sharpest tools in the shed, you know?
    Nit-picking, but stick the word "ordinarily" between "cannot" and "stay out". You CAN do it, but you need to arrange it in advance, and there needs to be a pretty good reason for it. But, in general, they're (the State) looking for new PR's to stick around for a few years and contribute to the local economy and such. That's fair.

    G.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Question for Ky, Tenn and Ark residents.
    By Mardet65 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: October 20th, 2009, 06:26 PM
  2. AR question for Colorado Residents
    By cvhoss in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: March 8th, 2009, 08:26 PM
  3. Question for South Florida Residents
    By iamnoone in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: March 29th, 2008, 08:43 AM
  4. question fo MA residents
    By Shizzlemah in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: February 5th, 2008, 12:15 AM

Search tags for this page

atf delay status ky permanent resident

,

can a permanent resident buy a gun in kentucky

,

chl for permanent resident

,

chl for permanent residents

,
delayed 4473 resident alien
,
do i have to be a permanent resident of ky to buy a rifle
,
elmore county al concealed weapon permit
,

is a us permanent resident able to get a chl?

,

permanent resident buying gun chl

,
permanent resident get delayed gun buy.
,
reasons for gun purchase delay for permanent resident
,

reasons gun purchase delayed permanent resident

Click on a term to search for related topics.