Universal back ground checks

This is a discussion on Universal back ground checks within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Ok, I'm going to expose my lack of knowledge here but what's the difference in the universal background check and the background check I undergo ...

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    Senior Member Array DPro.40's Avatar
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    Universal back ground checks

    Ok, I'm going to expose my lack of knowledge here but what's the difference in the universal background check and the background check I undergo to purchase firearms. Anyone know?
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    "Universal" implies that background checks would even apply in a sale between two non-dealers (two non-FFL's), or in other words, to all sales versus only sales by dealers (FFL's). There may be a few more nuances, but that about covers it I believe.

    For example, a face to face sale between two individuals that are not FFL's. "Universal" might even be defined as between immediate family.........it just depends how it might ultimately be defined.

    Hopefully so experts will show up here and elaborate.

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    that would be a bad thing
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    Senior Member Array DPro.40's Avatar
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    Thanks R&G. I understand. I Agee that would definatly be a none of your business deal.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
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    Senior Member Array zamboni's Avatar
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    I was at a gun show today and I noticed that most of the dealers were using computers to conduct their BGC's instead of calling on the phone???

    I asked one of the dealers why? They told me that: "We got a notice to do it this way because with all the BGC activity lately it would be quicker."

    I said: "Yeah right....I guess this is the Government's way of starting a database of gun owners now!"

    He said: "No...they told use that it would speed it up and that they had to purge their database within 4-months, the same-way they have to dispose of the paperwork, to comply with the law."

    Funny thing is ... I heard people complaining how they had to wait 1-1/2hrs to over 2-hrs for their paperwork to be completed?

    And it didn't seem like there were anymore people buy firearms then usual. Is this the Governments way of starting a database of new gun owners from hereon forward?

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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zamboni View Post
    I was at a gun show today and I noticed that most of the dealers were using computers to conduct their BGC's instead of calling on the phone???

    I asked one of the dealers why? They told me that: "We got a notice to do it this way because with all the BGC activity lately it would be quicker."

    I said: "Yeah right....I guess this is the Government's way of starting a database of gun owners now!"

    He said: "No...they told use that it would speed it up and that they had to purge their database within 4-months, the same-way they have to dispose of the paperwork, to comply with the law."

    Funny thing is ... I heard people complaining how they had to wait 1-1/2hrs to over 2-hrs for their paperwork to be completed?

    And it didn't seem like there were anymore people buy firearms then usual. Is this the Governments way of starting a database of new gun owners from hereon forward?
    Putting that big new computer facility and computer complex with massive data storage .... and back-ups done daily. ... to work ??
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    He said: "No...they told use that it would speed it up and that they had to purge their database within 4-months, the same-way they have to dispose of the paperwork, to comply with the law."
    I believe it was Hot Guns who said that they were subject to a BATFE audit and they had records that went back far more than four months. When questioned about it, HG was given a poor and vague answer. When pressed on how that could be if the records were purged, HG was told, "that's what we were told to say". So, no the records are not purged. It is a lie and it certainly wouldn't be the first told by the govt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    "Universal" implies that background checks would even apply in a sale between two non-dealers (two non-FFL's), or in other words, to all sales versus only sales by dealers (FFL's). There may be a few more nuances, but that about covers it I believe.

    For example, a face to face sale between two individuals that are not FFL's. "Universal" might even be defined as between immediate family.........it just depends how it might ultimately be defined.

    Hopefully so experts will show up here and elaborate.
    I'm not so sure about this. Remember "universal health care" and the words "we have to pass it to find out what's in it". Don't assume anything.

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    Without getting into the wisdom of background checks (whatever that means), nowadays almost
    anyone can do a background check on anyone else. There are so many commercial data mining
    services around it is disgusting. My niece had an interest in someone I was concerned about. It didn't
    take me very much effort and it cost me nothing to find out that he had been married, had been divorced,
    and probably wasn't telling her the truth about much of anything, including the kind of business he was saying
    he was in.

    Personally I would not sell a firearm to someone without seeing an ID, without a bill of sale, and probably not without
    at least some sort of quick do it myself background check to make sure he isn't a felon. Nowadays there are
    few who escape the clutches of the data mining companies which are readily accessible through google or yahoo.

    If I know your real name and your real address, I can find out if you have ever been sued, ever been convicted of
    anything, in which jurisdiction. I can find out everywhere you have lived, who your relatives are, who had lived in
    your household. I don't doubt for a second (though I'm only guessing) that law enforcement officials can get
    a great deal more data on you or I easily--- a private investigator friend of mine seems to have access to stuff
    not readily available on the net. I guess if you pay the fee to the data aggregation company you can get the info.




    The days of having privacy are over-- for both the good and the bad.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Senior Member Array KyBill's Avatar
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    I'm probably wrong, I was under the impression that that the results of the NICS check had to be deleted within 24 hours but I dont know how long the dealers or the state might retain a record of purchase.

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    Member Array pfries's Avatar
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    I am all for Universal back ground checks.
    If it is not human I would prefer we not sell a firearm to them.....
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    Just to elaborate on a few things...
    The ATF agent that did my audit a few weeks ago was very professional and very,very thorough.

    When she checked my stack of 4473's she compared the NICS transaction number to a computer generated sheet that she had.

    I asked her what this was about and she said that she was comparing actual NICS transactions numbers against what I had written down on the forms. She said that she did this because some dealers, rather than actually call it in had just made up a number and gave their customer the gun without actually doing the NICS check. When I asked her why they would do this, she said that usually it was to speed things up, that the dealers didnt want to wait on the system when they had lots of customers. She also said that they had revoked some FFL's because of that.

    I along with everyone else, had been told that all records are purged after 3 months. I've been told it, and I've read it a bunch at lots of websites. It's worded so that you might think it was truthful.

    So I asked her, if all records of transaction are purger after 3 months, how is that you have a complete record of every transaction that I did with NICS for the whole year (2012)?

    She said, "thats what we are told to say".

    It is apparent to me, that the whole NICS thing is nothing but a scam. The whole background check is nothing but a scam. Everyone that thinks it a good idea is believing in a scam. Now remember how long this country rocked on without getting a background check....over 200 years.

    Why do you think that they now want to make EVERY private sale subject to a background check? For those that believe everything that they are told because they are too stupid to think for themselves, I'll help you along.

    That was part of the original plan. It serves one purpose and one purpose only. It serves to "register" YOU as a gun owner. That is all that it does. The gun grabbers don't care about your guns, they just want to know who has them.

    Knowing that making private transactions subject to NICS check when it first cam out, would have been ill received by most thinking people, they decided to warm the pot first. Listening to some of our newer posters and a few of our old one, its seems to have worked very well.

    If you want to believe that a NICS check keeps guns out of the hands of criminals, you are believing a lie.
    If you want to believe that a NICs check "proves" that you are a good person, you are believing a lie.
    If you want to believe that the government database is purged after 3 months, you are believing a lie.
    If you want to believe that the government needs to know who gun owners are and its for our safety, you are believe a lie.
    If you are stupid enough to think that submitting to a background check is a voluntary thing...try to buy a new gun without it.

    Come to your own conclusions and if you still believe that its all for the "greater good" ask your self this and do it while looking in a mirror...

    Am I part of the problem? Am I one of the reason that the noose of gun control in the last 20 or so years has gotten tighter?

    Handgun permits? Another registration scheme of gun owners. Think about it.

    Someone tell me why we need a permit to exercise a 2nd amendment right, one that is in the Constitution. Supposedly the law of the land.
    Do you need a permit to speak?
    How about to not say a thing?
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    Senior Member Array SigPapa226's Avatar
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    Every year thousands, maybe millions of illegals enter this country. Every year tons and tons of drugs are smuggled into this country.

    Does anyone think that the bad guys CANNOT smuggle arms into this country? All the registration does is to identify the good guys. Once again the bad guys will still have guns without being registered, so what good is registration except for eventual confiscation? The same goes for ammo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Someone tell me why we need a permit to exercise a 2nd amendment right, one that is in the Constitution. Supposedly the law of the land.
    Do you need a permit to speak?
    How about to not say a thing?
    How about to somewhat increase YOUR chance of getting home alive at the end of a work day?
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigPapa226 View Post
    Every year thousands, maybe millions of illegals enter this country. Every year tons and tons of drugs are smuggled into this country.

    Does anyone think that the bad guys CANNOT smuggle arms into this country? All the registration does is to identify the good guys. Once again the bad guys will still have guns without being registered, so what good is registration except for eventual confiscation? The same goes for ammo.
    But it's the good guys that they are worried about. The good guys believe in the constitution and will defend it, the bad guys won't.

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