What's missing in U.S. gun control scramble? Bullets

What's missing in U.S. gun control scramble? Bullets

This is a discussion on What's missing in U.S. gun control scramble? Bullets within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; This one just popped up on Yahoo News. Lengthy, but worthy of attention. What's missing in U.S. gun control scramble? Bullets - Yahoo! News...

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  1. #1
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    What's missing in U.S. gun control scramble? Bullets

    This one just popped up on Yahoo News. Lengthy, but worthy of attention.
    What's missing in U.S. gun control scramble? Bullets - Yahoo! News
    The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see.
    Ayn Rand


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    Member Array MNewkirk's Avatar
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    Los Angeles has required dealers to log ammunition sales since 1998, and police there say they check logs regularly.
    "This is something I think has made L.A. a safer place, really," said Los Angeles Police Department Captain Bill Hart, the head of the gangs and narcotics division.
    Seriously?

  3. #3
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    Based on the current shortage of ammunition, it's fairly obvious that people sense this becoming a bigger issue at some point. I thought I had a decent stash. Not now.
    Thanks for fueling my paranoia, Mike!
    darbo likes this.
    "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." ~ P. J. O'Rourke

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    From article.;

    Since 2008, California's capital has required ammunition dealers to take names and thumbprints of bullet buyers. They send the information electronically to police computers, which compare the names to an FBI criminal database.

    Halstead begins his day looking at a list of buyers, picking out the ones who aren't supposed to own ammunition - or guns. The thumbprint left by each prohibited buyer is nearly perfect evidence of crime.

    "The ammunition case is a slam-dunk solid," said Halstead, who regularly turns up illegal guns at homes he otherwise would have no reason to search. Some 154 felony convictions and 92 misdemeanor convictions have resulted so far.
    END QUOTE.

    SO, lets begin todays lesson kids.

    If officer Halstead began investigating records of bullet sales, say even in 2010.
    Thats 2 years(from the beginning of 2010 to the end of 2012) worth of searching the database, but most likely longer.

    Theres 5 workdays in a week, 52 weeks per year, so that give us 260 days of searching the database per year, x2 = 520 days.
    And all they have to show for in , at minimum 2 years, maybe more, is 154 felony convictions and 92 misdemeanor convictions?

    How many of the felony convictions also were for the same guy getting a misdemeanor one as well?
    Sounds like a wise use of resources to me.
    Morons.

    Feel good BS.
    Last edited by oneshot; January 20th, 2013 at 10:50 AM.
    msgt/ret likes this.
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    Member Array Clodbert's Avatar
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    Please don't give the federal lawmakers any ideas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    From article.;

    Since 2008, California's capital has required ammunition dealers to take names and thumbprints of bullet buyers. They send the information electronically to police computers, which compare the names to an FBI criminal database.

    Halstead begins his day looking at a list of buyers, picking out the ones who aren't supposed to own ammunition - or guns. The thumbprint left by each prohibited buyer is nearly perfect evidence of crime.

    "The ammunition case is a slam-dunk solid," said Halstead, who regularly turns up illegal guns at homes he otherwise would have no reason to search. Some 154 felony convictions and 92 misdemeanor convictions have resulted so far.
    END QUOTE.

    SO, lets begin todays leson kids.

    If officer Halstead began investigating records of bullet sales, say even in 2010.
    Thats 2 years(from the beginning of 2010 to the end of 2012) worth of searching the database, but most likely longer.

    Theres 5 workdays in a week, 52 weeks per year, so that give us 260 days of searching the database per year, x2 = 520 days.
    And all they have to show for in , at minimum 2 years, maybe more, is 154 felony convictions and 92 misdemeanor convictions?

    How many of the felony convictions also were for the same guy getting a misdemeanor one as well?
    Sounds like a wise use of resources to me.
    Morons.

    Feel good BS.
    On the surface I agree it looks very inefficient, but how much time might have been spent investigating felonies
    perpetrated by that 154, gathering evidence from complex situations, and prosecuting difficult cases as compared to these
    ammo cases. We can be certain, absolutely certain, that each of the 154 felons weren't purchasing ammo for a benign
    purpose. Maybe the activity prevented several homicides? What's the price on that. What's the price of the trial and
    death penalty case that would follow including appeals etc.?

    Its a tough call.

    I don't like the concept of checking ammo sales purchasers, but really, I would not mind in the least
    if I had to leave thumb prints --- and not just for ammo.

    I think thumb print scanners could be very helpful for controlling things like credit card misuse, verifying a purchaser for returned goods, and similar, adding a 3rd layer of confirmation on critical documents beyond the notary.

    I can not explain or articulate exactly why I am OK with thumb prints, but I'd personally rather leave a thumb print than have to show a government issued ID. The thumb is mine, and I can do with it as I please. The DL or ID or whatever is "theirs" and therefore others gain a certain control when it is required to be displayed. And personally I would prefer to confirm
    my ID by leaving a thumb print than by photo which nowadays can end up on display all over the net in contexts beyond
    where and when the photo was taken.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    On the surface I agree it looks very inefficient, but how much time might have been spent investigating felonies
    perpetrated by that 154, gathering evidence from complex situations, and prosecuting difficult cases as compared to these
    ammo cases. We can be certain, absolutely certain, that each of the 154 felons weren't purchasing ammo for a benign
    purpose. Maybe the activity prevented several homicides? What's the price on that. What's the price of the trial and
    death penalty case that would follow including appeals etc.?

    Its a tough call.

    I don't like the concept of checking ammo sales purchasers, but really, I would not mind in the least
    if I had to leave thumb prints --- and not just for ammo.

    I think thumb print scanners could be very helpful for controlling things like credit card misuse, verifying a purchaser for returned goods, and similar, adding a 3rd layer of confirmation on critical documents beyond the notary.

    I can not explain or articulate exactly why I am OK with thumb prints, but I'd personally rather leave a thumb print than have to show a government issued ID. The thumb is mine, and I can do with it as I please. The DL or ID or whatever is "theirs" and therefore others gain a certain control when it is required to be displayed. And personally I would prefer to confirm
    my ID by leaving a thumb print than by photo which nowadays can end up on display all over the net in contexts beyond
    where and when the photo was taken.
    Sounds pretty Revelations to me, and I don't even subscribe to that particular school of thought.
    The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see.
    Ayn Rand

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clodbert View Post
    Please don't give the federal lawmakers any ideas.
    Don't worry, they are full of ideas for their subjects.
    darbo and msgt/ret like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    On the surface I agree it looks very inefficient, but how much time might have been spent investigating felonies
    perpetrated by that 154, gathering evidence from complex situations, and prosecuting difficult cases as compared to these
    ammo cases. We can be certain, absolutely certain, that each of the 154 felons weren't purchasing ammo for a benign
    purpose. Maybe the activity prevented several homicides? What's the price on that. What's the price of the trial and
    death penalty case that would follow including appeals etc.?

    Its a tough call.

    .

    ^I'll concede that its possible^^^^^^^^^^^

    that it MAY have stopped a few legitimate homicides( not gangbanger on gangbanger)
    but how many of these scumbags were repeat felons & would have been prevented from even being able to buy the ammo if they were locked up, serving their original length sentence?

    Same with these chumps driving around drunk, finally killing someone, and then we learn they already went through the revolving door called the judicial system multiple times for the same offense.
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

    Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to defeat the British, He shot them!

    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn

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    The only reason any convictions have been made is because the criminals didn't know how it worked. Make it a national law, put it on the news and you know what you get? You get educated criminals who let their girlfriends buy the ammo.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  11. #11
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    How do they keep track of RELOADING?
    msgt/ret likes this.
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    Distinguished Member Array Rcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    The only reason any convictions have been made is because the criminals didn't know how it worked. Make it a national law, put it on the news and you know what you get? You get educated criminals who let their girlfriends buy the ammo.
    Agreed, another law that doesnt work and only infringes our capabilities.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem". - Ronald Reagan 1981

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsky109 View Post
    How do they keep track of RELOADING?
    I had the same question. I see reloading being heavily targeted. Simply outlaw the sale of primers without "Really Special" licensing with really high fees and poof! Reloading gets a near fatal hit.

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    Member Array BeefyG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    On the surface I agree it looks very inefficient, but how much time might have been spent investigating felonies
    perpetrated by that 154, gathering evidence from complex situations, and prosecuting difficult cases as compared to these
    ammo cases. We can be certain, absolutely certain, that each of the 154 felons weren't purchasing ammo for a benign
    purpose. Maybe the activity prevented several homicides? What's the price on that. What's the price of the trial and
    death penalty case that would follow including appeals etc.?

    Its a tough call.

    I don't like the concept of checking ammo sales purchasers, but really, I would not mind in the least
    if I had to leave thumb prints --- and not just for ammo.

    I think thumb print scanners could be very helpful for controlling things like credit card misuse, verifying a purchaser for returned goods, and similar, adding a 3rd layer of confirmation on critical documents beyond the notary.

    I can not explain or articulate exactly why I am OK with thumb prints, but I'd personally rather leave a thumb print than have to show a government issued ID. The thumb is mine, and I can do with it as I please. The DL or ID or whatever is "theirs" and therefore others gain a certain control when it is required to be displayed. And personally I would prefer to confirm
    my ID by leaving a thumb print than by photo which nowadays can end up on display all over the net in contexts beyond
    where and when the photo was taken.
    IDK. If my ID gets stolen or is somehow used illegally I can get a new one issued with a different number etc. If your thumb print record is somehow tainted, how do you get a new thumb? Any time data is stored and transmitted electronically becomes a potential ID theft event and in the case of your thumb there is no getting a new CC, ID, SSN, or the like. How often do we see cases where a disk of supposedly secure data gets lost or stolen because some bumbling employee wanted to do some work at home? Ammo purchases happen A LOT and I don't think I would appreciate giving over my thumb print to wally world. Just my opinion.

    But yeah, thats probably at least 154 crimes prevented and quite potentially a multiple of that if each criminal had time do perpetrate more than one before they feds caught up to them. I just would prefer to see something other than thumb prints used.

  15. #15
    Member Array jblitz's Avatar
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    Seems that this idea would be very effective.... at killing internet sales/businesses.
    atctimmy likes this.
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