Am I the only one that feels that pro-gun rallies are counterproductive?

This is a discussion on Am I the only one that feels that pro-gun rallies are counterproductive? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I think the largest problem we as the pro gun/pro carry movement have are those members who say they support our cause but feel like ...

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Thread: Am I the only one that feels that pro-gun rallies are counterproductive?

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    I think the largest problem we as the pro gun/pro carry movement have are those members who say they support our cause but feel like the rallies and our speaking out for our cause doesn't help or hurts us. I think that those who profess this belief either don't really support us or are secretly actively trying to undermine us.
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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array Maverickx50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    I think the largest problem we as the pro gun/pro carry movement have are those members who say they support our cause but feel like the rallies and our speaking out for our cause doesn't help or hurts us. I think that those who profess this belief either don't really support us or are secretly actively trying to undermine us.
    I can think of many things to say about your comment. I admire your support for the 2nd amendment. As for your personal shot,,,, that comes mostly from your & our frustration and anger over the current politics. I'll ignore and forget it as we are on the same team here.
    I carry to protect myself and my loved ones from the BG's. Not to solve societies problems. That said: if more carried the deterrent would only have a positive overall effect on those problems.

  4. #33
    Member Array OldGrumpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    I think the largest problem we as the pro gun/pro carry movement have are those members who say they support our cause but feel like the rallies and our speaking out for our cause doesn't help or hurts us. I think that those who profess this belief either don't really support us or are secretly actively trying to undermine us.
    In support of the OP I think the cause is right but the methods need to be examined. Causes are won or lost by the presentation. Last presidential election shows us that. I think a well prepared and presented rally can be of great value. Too much of footage I have seen of Saturday shows lack of prep and poor oratory. We may need fewer, but better, rallies going forward.
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  5. #34
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    I am at a lost why folks are treating the OP like a leper. He did not say do nothing. In fact, he made many suggestions and had ideas about the way he thinks is best to go about this. It doesn't matter if I agree with him or not. Seems like if you criticize any method, not attempt, at swaying public or political opinion our way then you are anti gun or a sheep or whatever.

    I am sick of the phrase "at least he, she, or they are trying." Well you know, as an NCO in the Army, and a hockey coach I had to sometimes relive someone or cut them from the team because they could not cut the muster or could not figure out how to do things that are productive. It did not mean that they were not trying.

    Quite frankly it does not matter what you guys or I think about the pro gun rallie because we support their cause. We are not the ones they have to sway. It is the rest of the population and the politicians.
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  6. #35
    Senior Member Array Maverickx50's Avatar
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    I did not start this thread because I felt I was absolutely right. Of course I didn't feel I was totally wrong either LOL. I started it for one reason. To get us all to consider how to best support our 2nd amendment rights and to do so in the most effective positive way. We have many advantages but some striking limitations as well. Most have been mentioned here. Thanks for your understanding, support and yes even your disagreement.
    I carry to protect myself and my loved ones from the BG's. Not to solve societies problems. That said: if more carried the deterrent would only have a positive overall effect on those problems.

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    I think that the media can try to portray the rallies as a bunch of hillbillies, republicans, christians, etc., clinging to their guns, but the majority of the public also recognizes that the media is biased (recent polls have shown this).

    Also, recent polls have shown that the majority of Americans support the right to bear arms, and do not believe that the proposed laws would stop someone who wanted to commit a mass shooting.

    The only way I see these rallies hurting us is if someone who has no idea what they are talking about gets on TV, or in the newspapers...
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  8. #37
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    I think the problem with all rallies is the same. Take the "million ____ marches" - nowhere near that many showed up for any of them and b/c of that they were deemed failures. In a country of 300 million, thousands doesn't mean much. This country is too vast to make an overwhelming physical showing for any cause. Best use of resources (time/money) is still contacting reps on a regular, individual basis considering how long it takes and cost for most to drive to their state capital. It's also setting ourselves up for the opposition to show us in any light they see fit. That said, hoorah to those who showed up.

  9. #38
    Member Array mg27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    I could not agree with the OP more. Esp some of the people at the rallies are exactly what the anti's fear, red necks with big bad guns!!

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    So what should we do? Sit back and just let the left wing media beat us over the heads? Who cares what the anti's think. We gotta get MORE aggresive in my opinion, Cause being nice isnt working out to well so far. There has to be a line somewhere that we all should agree on as to how far to let this go. We are the ones who make our destiny.. Put farmer Joe out there with one tooth, At least he is a patriot, Hell w/ rachel maddow and her clan..Look at them? Fruit loops on msnbc hahaha.. I'll take a pro American like "farmer joe" anyday then this new I dont know what you call these people, Liberals? traitors? I would like to be segregated. All I'd want is one state with people who Love the old American way of life and the rest can live together . If I had kids I wouldn't want them seeing half of the shows on Tv trying to make right seem wrong, and wrong seem right. Enough!

    Im done with political correctness, where has that gotten us?
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  10. #39
    Member Array vilecanards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txron View Post
    What we need to do is change the dialogue from "pro-gun" or "against gun control" to standing up for our rights as Americans. The rally should be label "pro rights" or "against the limitations of our rights". The media will never put a headline with those words, but that is the issue. Not whether you support guns or are against guns. It is about whather you support ALL of our rights or you don't.
    This is the message we should be sending!

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    I think the problem with all rallies is the same. Take the "million ____ marches" - nowhere near that many showed up for any of them and b/c of that they were deemed failures. In a country of 300 million, thousands doesn't mean much. This country is too vast to make an overwhelming physical showing for any cause. Best use of resources (time/money) is still contacting reps on a regular, individual basis considering how long it takes and cost for most to drive to their state capital. It's also setting ourselves up for the opposition to show us in any light they see fit. That said, hoorah to those who showed up.
    I'd say most gun owners are too lazy to fight for their rights in a real way that requires any real sacrifice of time and effort. If just 20 percent of the 70 - 80 million gun owners showed up at a national rally on the capital, their voices would be heard. Gun owners are too lazy to truly fight for the rights they claim to hold so dearly. That is one of many reasons the other side is even able to suggest restricting constitutional rights in such a public way.

  12. #41
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    Is a change in strategy required? Open carry everywhere so the public sees guns as common place. They will quickly become desensatized to firearms. Make it publically acceptable and call those that oppose gun rights as hate mangers and gun intolerant. The strategy sure seemed to work for another cause didn't it, at least in the liberal context?

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGrumpy View Post
    In support of the OP I think the cause is right but the methods need to be examined. Causes are won or lost by the presentation. Last presidential election shows us that. I think a well prepared and presented rally can be of great value. Too much of footage I have seen of Saturday shows lack of prep and poor oratory. We may need fewer, but better, rallies going forward.
    Any of you guys feel free to plan and organize a better, more prepared rally or other idea and I promise I'll show up and support it too. It's really easy to sit back, watch and say how it could have been done better.

    What are you going to do to make the next rally or idea better? Not being a smart arse either. I really want to know and be apart of it.
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  14. #43
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctr View Post
    Is a change in strategy required? Open carry everywhere so the public sees guns as common place. They will quickly become desensatized to firearms. Make it publically acceptable ...


    IMO, this is the primary benefit of OC, beyond the basic comfort/ease of doing so.

    I don't know about quickly changing things, but familiarity can't help but show proof that the activity itself is harmless. Of course, other activities can show the risks, such as reckless gun handling/safety procedures, whipping it out to show others, generally behaving in any threatening manner ... none of which have to do with openly carrying or firearms ownership as such.
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  15. #44
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctr View Post
    Is a change in strategy required? Open carry everywhere so the public sees guns as common place. They will quickly become desensatized to firearms. Make it publically acceptable and call those that oppose gun rights as hate mangers and gun intolerant. The strategy sure seemed to work for another cause didn't it, at least in the liberal context?
    But when we do OC places we have a right to (like the guy at the voting place last year) folks on THIS forum dog the man and say he was trying to get attention. I am a big advocate for OC'ing and have said that we all should be OC'ing more. Again...many people in this forum are against it.
    Last edited by suntzu; January 21st, 2013 at 08:30 AM.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
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  16. #45
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    But when we do OC places we have a right to (like the guy at the voting place last year) fols on THIS forum dog the man and say he was trying to get attention. I am a big advocate for OC'ing and have said that we all should be OC'ing more.
    Agreed. Openly carrying is done for many reasons, and only a paltry number do so to force confrontation (and in an ugly tyrannical environment even that sort of contact can have its benefits).

    I carry openly at such places for similar reason as you've indicated, to help people appreciate it's not a threat, that I'm not a threat, and that normal, everyday, upstanding people can be well-armed against potential crime without spontaneously bursting into flames. Were we to have 20M people carrying in this way daily, imagine how much more quickly folks would get used to the sight and the simple inescapable reality.

    Thankfully, there are many states in which carrying at such venues is perfectly lawful, as is openly carrying. At the Kentucky rally in Frankfort the other day, there had to be well over 100 people carrying openly; I'm sure it was even more, given how many I couldn't see clearly enough to tell. That's in a standing crowd of ~400+, one that was likely far, far larger over the whole course of the rally given that people were coming and going the whole time.

    The sooner we can help the average person see that carrying as we go about our lawful business is not a threat, the sooner we'll get these ludicrous restrictions relaxed (and, hopefully, at some point declared what they are: unconstitutional infringements upon the lawful keeping and bearing of arms).
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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