We're smarter than this situation that we're reacting to. - Page 3

We're smarter than this situation that we're reacting to.

This is a discussion on We're smarter than this situation that we're reacting to. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by glockman10mm I think the larger picture is missed here. Something has happened in our society in the last 20 years that did ...

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I think the larger picture is missed here. Something has happened in our society in the last 20 years that did not exist 30 years ago. When I was in High School, it was normal to see rifles and shotguns in racks of pkup truck windows. It was normal to meet after school for impromptu plinking. It was normal for history teachers to display firearms of the period and other weapons as visual aids.

    Why should we care about school shootings? Because we hate seeing children killed! That should be obvious, but also it puts the big light on gun ownership.

    Statistics? Sure, overall violent crime may have decreased during the rise of video games, but the school shootings started in that same area.

    It may not be the complete fault of video games, but it damn sure is suspicious.
    Combined with fatherless homes, and the decay of morality, and a kid with an empty head will get filled with something.
    Everything is sissified. Nobody is pushed into hard work anymore. We just make it easier for them. Then when something is hard, like dealing with people who call you ugly or fat, they don't know what to do. They are not trained to deal with something not going their way. So they lash out uncontrollably and take the easy way out by removing the people they don't like.

    It's not the games and media, it's the entire system of school, family, and society. We try to make everyone fit in, no kid will fail, at home no responsibility. So there is no achievement and drive, just floating along until something doesn't go your way. Then what? No idea what to do because you have never been challenged before. Eventually they may think, hey if I just get rid of this guy it won't be a problem anymore. So they steal someone's gun and are off.

    Gamers, real gamers. People who play video games a significant amount of time do not play violent games because they are violent. They play them because the art, storytelling, universe, mythology in the game world, and characters draw them into the fantasy world. I assure you that no video game you can find whatsoever is going to make a person able to discern reality from the fictional game world, a violent person. I will say that a person who is prone to violent acting out and instability will be drawn to the shooter games and probably not interested in the adventure games and slow paced games that make you think and strategize.
    Arborigine and Alex_C like this.
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  2. #32
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
    Everything is sissified. Nobody is pushed into hard work anymore. We just make it easier for them. Then when something is hard, like dealing with people who call you ugly or fat, they don't know what to do. They are not trained to deal with something not going their way. So they lash out uncontrollably and take the easy way out by removing the people they don't like.

    It's not the games and media, it's the entire system of school, family, and society. We try to make everyone fit in, no kid will fail, at home no responsibility. So there is no achievement and drive, just floating along until something doesn't go your way. Then what? No idea what to do because you have never been challenged before. Eventually they may think, hey if I just get rid of this guy it won't be a problem anymore. So they steal someone's gun and are off.

    Gamers, real gamers. People who play video games a significant amount of time do not play violent games because they are violent. They play them because the art, storytelling, universe, mythology in the game world, and characters draw them into the fantasy world. I assure you that no video game you can find whatsoever is going to make a person able to discern reality from the fictional game world, a violent person. I will say that a person who is prone to violent acting out and instability will be drawn to the shooter games and probably not interested in the adventure games and slow paced games that make you think and strategize.
    I never said that video games was the sole cause. The premise of what I was trying to say is that kids today, have no good input fed or imparted into them. In that void, something will fill it.
    Of course, a normal child, raised in a properly nurturing home filled with guidance and imparted with a strong sense of values will have no issues with gaming.
    But in the absence of positive input, combined with mental instability, the input of violence, regardless of video or music will have an inpact that cannot be good.
    The seperation of reality and fantasy becomes blurred, or even non existent.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I never said that video games was the sole cause. The premise of what I was trying to say is that kids today, have no good input fed or imparted into them. In that void, something will fill it.
    Of course, a normal child, raised in a properly nurturing home filled with guidance and imparted with a strong sense of values will have no issues with gaming.
    But in the absence of positive input, combined with mental instability, the input of violence, regardless of video or music will have an inpact that cannot be good.
    The seperation of reality and fantasy becomes blurred, or even non existent.
    I know, but nobody grows up today knowing how to work hard or overcome a challenge. Leads to lots of problems when the world comes knocking on the door and you are unprepared for adversity.
    glockman10mm likes this.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
    I know, but nobody grows up today knowing how to work hard or overcome a challenge. Leads to lots of problems when the world comes knocking on the door and you are unprepared for adversity.
    I just love arguments based on absolutes. Come on. Really? There are plenty of people who work hard,
    overcome challenges, and lead solid productive lives. I see them behind
    the fast food counters every day. I see them going to Junior College or the University every day, I see them in the medical
    clinics and labs I need to go to. I see them working as LEOs on the streets every day or EMS/fire.

    I see them at my gym, where many of the folks look like what you might be thinking about but they have dreams
    and work hard to achieve them in MMA or preparing their bodies for OTS; meanwhile
    going to jobs or school, or both and working their tails off in the cage.

    What you have posted is a false stereotype of the ordinary guy. You want to find lazy, never worked hard,
    can't overcome challenges folks, look at some of the kids in your affluent neighborhoods; the ones who don't
    take to school, won't work in menial jobs, don't join the military, wouldn't consider becoming cops or fire fighters,
    or even school teachers. That's hard work too.
    Clodbert and torgo1968 like this.
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  5. #35
    Member Array Clodbert's Avatar
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    I second Hopyard's post. Dealing in absolutes and making sweeping generalizations is not the best way to make your point.

  6. #36
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    Narcissism is just the ugly little sister to clinical Psychopaths and Sociopaths (psychopaths being born with their brains wired differently and sociopaths being more of a conditioned re-wiring). A Vast majority of people are clueless to these issues unless they have personally had to deal with one. Read "Psychopaths Among Us" or "White Colar Psychopaths". I worked closely with a Psychopath for over 10 years, and this person was in a powerful leadership position. Their mind is wired differently, and they play by an entirely different set of rules. The define everyone else as weak by the rules that we live by. They have absolutely no fear of repurcussions. They process emotion with the language center of the brain. They find human emotion interesting because they don't experience it. They "know the words but not the music" and they learn to mimic emotion because society has taught them they expect them to have it, but they don't feel it. They inflict emotional stress on others just to watch them emote...to study it and observe it. These people often resort to physical harm. It is said that not all Psychopaths are serial killers, but all serial killers are Psychopaths. I am convinced to this day that the person I worked with is capable of physical violence. I could write a novel about what I learned over that time in dealing with someone like this. The unfortunate reality is there's a lot of them, and they're everywhere.
    glockman10mm and Hopyard like this.
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  7. #37
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Re: We're smarter than this situation that we're reacting to.

    Couldn't it be something as simple as a person choosing to do evil?



    Murder in all its forms has existed long before movies, video games and guns. And it will exist long after these things are gone.



    Sent from my Galaxy S2
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  8. #38
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I just love arguments based on absolutes. Come on. Really? There are plenty of people who work hard,
    overcome challenges, and lead solid productive lives. I see them behind
    the fast food counters every day. I see them going to Junior College or the University every day, I see them in the medical
    clinics and labs I need to go to. I see them working as LEOs on the streets every day or EMS/fire.

    I see them at my gym, where many of the folks look like what you might be thinking about but they have dreams
    and work hard to achieve them in MMA or preparing their bodies for OTS; meanwhile
    going to jobs or school, or both and working their tails off in the cage.

    What you have posted is a false stereotype of the ordinary guy. You want to find lazy, never worked hard,
    can't overcome challenges folks, look at some of the kids in your affluent neighborhoods; the ones who don't
    take to school, won't work in menial jobs, don't join the military, wouldn't consider becoming cops or fire fighters,
    or even school teachers. That's hard work too.
    Yawn...and this is why some people think it's a losing battle. You nitpick words instead of looking at the whole conversation.

    I dunno about everyone else but people working the fast food places are the laziest out there.

    Yes I was generalizing, but you still agree in the end that young people today are very lazy.

    I'm sorry if it might offend someone to state my opinion. I'm sure we are all frustrated in some way about a great many topics.
    1MoreGoodGuy and OD* like this.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
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    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

  9. #39
    Member Array JaySkiBum's Avatar
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    Here's my quick background: 21, went to college, got my associates degree, work full time in a career fire department (1.5yrs so far, volunteering since 16), own a home, work seasonal jobs for extra income. I also have more video game screen time in my short life than I like to admit...mostly bang-bang shoot 'em up games. Thankfully I was extremely committed to sports in school and I stayed very active with 3 different sports. I also fix all my own junk 98% of the time. (truck, home, etc) Nothing hurts my pride more than forking over extra cash to have someone else fix my problems when I could invest that money into tools and equipment so I can do it myself. Oh, and I've been carrying a firearm regularly for just over a year as well.

    With that said I find it very hard to prove that video games are causing more violence in kids today. Before I played video games I used to go to my grandparents and use cap guns and empty BB guns and stage my own Cowboy and Indian wars on the front porch!! If I hadn't been taught about proper gun handling from my Dad and the Boy Scouts, I could see those younger years being much worse than any video game could ever be. MAYBE there's a small correlation with a very select few nut jobs who end up being violent and their video game habits, but being able to prove that can't be easy with what I see as a very small minority. I'm just not buying it!!
    cmdrdredd and Darrow75 like this.

  10. #40
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaySkiBum View Post
    Here's my quick background: 21, went to college, got my associates degree, work full time in a career fire department (1.5yrs so far, volunteering since 16), own a home, work seasonal jobs for extra income. I also have more video game screen time in my short life than I like to admit...mostly bang-bang shoot 'em up games. Thankfully I was extremely committed to sports in school and I stayed very active with 3 different sports. I also fix all my own junk 98% of the time. (truck, home, etc) Nothing hurts my pride more than forking over extra cash to have someone else fix my problems when I could invest that money into tools and equipment so I can do it myself. Oh, and I've been carrying a firearm regularly for just over a year as well.

    With that said I find it very hard to prove that video games are causing more violence in kids today. Before I played video games I used to go to my grandparents and use cap guns and empty BB guns and stage my own Cowboy and Indian wars on the front porch!! If I hadn't been taught about proper gun handling from my Dad and the Boy Scouts, I could see those younger years being much worse than any video game could ever be. MAYBE there's a small correlation with a very select few nut jobs who end up being violent and their video game habits, but being able to prove that can't be easy with what I see as a very small minority. I'm just not buying it!!
    However, from what you say, you had a sound upbringing with positive and instructive influence in your life.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  11. #41
    New Member Array Kevinwwings2's Avatar
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    Maybe gun education should be included in school. I won't say that movies or video game are the cause, but they sure don't help when you see a guy on TV get shot 10 times and keep on fighting. I don't know if that goes on in video games or not as I don't play but I am sure it probably does. When most of us were kids guns were common and we learned right from wrong, and what guns were capable of. Now parents expect the schools to raise their kids while they are working, and schools are not allowed to teach guns, and we wonder how we got to where we are? Mental illness is a huge part of it, so are gun free zones, along with many other things. No one thing is going to fix this problem and there is little or no doubt that our politicians are going about it the wrong way.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    Narcissism is just the ugly little sister to clinical Psychopaths and Sociopaths (psychopaths being born with their brains wired differently and sociopaths being more of a conditioned re-wiring). A Vast majority of people are clueless to these issues unless they have personally had to deal with one. Read "Psychopaths Among Us" or "White Colar Psychopaths". I worked closely with a Psychopath for over 10 years, and this person was in a powerful leadership position. Their mind is wired differently, and they play by an entirely different set of rules. The define everyone else as weak by the rules that we live by. They have absolutely no fear of repurcussions. They process emotion with the language center of the brain. They find human emotion interesting because they don't experience it. They "know the words but not the music" and they learn to mimic emotion because society has taught them they expect them to have it, but they don't feel it. They inflict emotional stress on others just to watch them emote...to study it and observe it. These people often resort to physical harm. It is said that not all Psychopaths are serial killers, but all serial killers are Psychopaths. I am convinced to this day that the person I worked with is capable of physical violence. I could write a novel about what I learned over that time in dealing with someone like this. The unfortunate reality is there's a lot of them, and they're everywhere.
    Absolutely spot on. I too worked for a sociopath. Though I doubt he would have committed murder*, he did commit
    mayhem while at the same time convincing his superiors he was doing a superb job; which he wasn't. Lots of sociopaths
    do manage to get into management positions because they are excellent at manipulating others for their purposes, and they
    do it with no conscience to get in the way.

    *I should not say that so absolutely as I believe he once tried to set me up to be harmed, but I could never prove it.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  13. #43
    Senior Member Array Darrow75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    However, from what you say, you had a sound upbringing with positive and instructive influence in your life.
    That's the point. It's not the video games, it's the upbringing or lack thereof. When the violent movie or video game are used as a babysitter, that is a problem.
    cmdrdredd likes this.

  14. #44
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinwwings2 View Post
    Maybe gun education should be included in school. I won't say that movies or video game are the cause, but they sure don't help when you see a guy on TV get shot 10 times and keep on fighting. I don't know if that goes on in video games or not as I don't play but I am sure it probably does. When most of us were kids guns were common and we learned right from wrong, and what guns were capable of. Now parents expect the schools to raise their kids while they are working, and schools are not allowed to teach guns, and we wonder how we got to where we are? Mental illness is a huge part of it, so are gun free zones, along with many other things. No one thing is going to fix this problem and there is little or no doubt that our politicians are going about it the wrong way.
    I'd say a good many things the school does is preaching rather than teaching. A buddy of mine failed some political sciences course in college once because he got a prof who he said was communist. I don't know how serious he was about that label, but it was basically if you had an opinion written in your papers he didn't like, you got a poor grade even if you had all the supporting facts and citations to prove your side.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
    I'd say a good many things the school does is preaching rather than teaching. A buddy of mine failed some political sciences course in college once because he got a prof who he said was communist. I don't know how serious he was about that label, but it was basically if you had an opinion written in your papers he didn't like, you got a poor grade even if you had all the supporting facts and citations to prove your side.
    I had plenty of teachers and professors like that...If you used facts that contradicted their opinions, your grades would suffer.
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