Today's letter to the editor:

This is a discussion on Today's letter to the editor: within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; If they print it... The solution is security, not bans. There is little difference between crazed madmen, zealots, or terrorists who are bent on destruction. ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Today's letter to the editor:

    If they print it...

    The solution is security, not bans.

    There is little difference between crazed madmen, zealots, or terrorists who are bent on destruction.

    What would we expect if 20 children and 6 adults had died in Sandy Hook at the hands of a terrorist that was screaming invocations to his deity? What if the victims had been blown up by an anti-government zealot with a truckload of fertilizer and diesel fuel?

    Because of the truck bombing of the Murrah building in Oklahoma City; most Federal buildings are protected by elaborate measures outside, and armed guards within. Look closely at the new federal courthouse in Cedar Rapids.

    Immediately after 9/11, we posted 5000 soldiers at vulnerable sites throughout the country, 8200 were deployed in airports until enhanced TSA security measures could be implemented.

    It’s nearly impossible for the criminally intentioned to carry any imaginable weapon near an airliner. If one should get aboard, there are armed pilots and/or air marshals on many flights. If terrorists get into a federal building, there is armed security within.

    Banning specific weapons or accessories will do no good. Because we really do know it is not the implement, but the perpetrator, who wreaks the devastation; we have not banned box cutters, airplanes, fertilizer, rental trucks, or diesel fuel.

    Guard our children with returning troops. Many would likely volunteer for such duty. Retrofit schools with measures equal to federal buildings. Secure the interiors with armed resource officers and voluntarily trained, armed staff.

    Our future generations deserve no less. Protect our posterity.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Nice job.
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
    Clint Eastwood

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Nice job but I have a question about this:
    Guard our children with returning troops.
    I surely hope you do not mean to use acive duty or federalized Guard/Reserve troops for this. The rational after 9/11 to use troops to guard certain things was because it was deemed a national emergencey and we were "under attack".
    DontTreadOnI likes this.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    I would prefer private security in our schools as opposed to state security. The government already has too much influence on our young people.
    vilecanards likes this.
    "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." ~ P. J. O'Rourke

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    Member Array Clodbert's Avatar
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    I naturally question the efficacy of an increased presence of military or law enforcement personnel in schools (or anywhere else), but I also have reservations about the "big picture" of heightening security at populated areas. We don't want a police state. We don't need to be scanned, poked, prodded, and herded like cattle any time we enter into an educational building or airport or step onto government property. I'm not a violent criminal and the vast majority of my fellow citizens aren't either. Don't treat us as if we are violent criminals.
    Kilowatt3 likes this.

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    Senior Member Array mano3's Avatar
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    We had to learn the hard way to deal with terrorists after 911. It's same after Sandy Hook...
    US Air Force, 1986 - 2007

    "To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them..." George Mason

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Nice job but I have a question about this:

    I surely hope you do not mean to use acive duty or federalized Guard/Reserve troops for this. The rational after 9/11 to use troops to guard certain things was because it was deemed a national emergencey and we were "under attack".
    Yes I do... until the schools can be retrofitted... "Even if we only save one child" it would be worth it... in the interim. Our schools are under attack... If not by madmen, copycats, and other deranged idiots... then how long before some real terrorist picks up on the Gun Free nature of most schools, the national grief over Sandy Hook, and the subsequent turmoil?

    Quote Originally Posted by bombthrower77 View Post
    I would prefer private security in our schools as opposed to state security. The government already has too much influence on our young people.
    Armed Resource Officers, and a few voluntarily trained and armed teachers and staff would be local. The "State" involvement is only temporary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clodbert View Post
    I naturally question the efficacy of an increased presence of military or law enforcement personnel in schools (or anywhere else), but I also have reservations about the "big picture" of heightening security at populated areas. We don't want a police state. We don't need to be scanned, poked, prodded, and herded like cattle any time we enter into an educational building or airport or step onto government property. I'm not a violent criminal and the vast majority of my fellow citizens aren't either. Don't treat us as if we are violent criminals.
    I don't want to treat our fellow citizens as criminals either... I simply want to keep criminals and madmen out of, and away from the schools... this can easily be done with photo IDs with magnetic strips in them for the students (we don't need RFID chips monitoring their every move). Secure check in for parents/guardians... and physical barriers around the schools.

    Children walk through security devices every day when they visit department stores and other mass retailers... why would it harm them to walk through one to get into the school... Both scanners deter crime... and inconvenience a very few who are innocent.

    We are living in a different world. Many live in homes fortified to varying degrees in the event of a highly unlikely (statistically speaking) home invasion.

    Why is it important to protect property and not our children?
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  9. #8
    Member Array Clodbert's Avatar
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    Do we know for sure that those scanners deter crime? And do we want this generation of children growing up in a world of endless security checkpoints, identification cards and access codes, video monitoring, and ubiquitous armed guards? I understand and respect your desire for greater safety, especially for children, but I think a critical appraisal of widespread preventive security measures must be done.

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clodbert View Post
    Do we know for sure that those scanners deter crime? And do we want this generation of children growing up in a world of endless security checkpoints, identification cards and access codes, video monitoring, and ubiquitous armed guards? I understand and respect your desire for greater safety, especially for children, but I think a critical appraisal of widespread preventive security measures must be done.
    The converse, I suppose, is the complete abandonment of security and deterrent devices... Let the bodies fall where they may... and try to catch the perpetrators after the fact.

    We are already in a world of endless security checkpoints, identification cards and access codes, video monitoring... but not so much the, armed guards... possibly because of the former... Heck, you can't even post on DC without a password, etc.

    Would you like me to be able to go to your bank and withdraw funds from your accounts on the basis that I told them I was indeed Clodbert?

    I cannot count on the benevolence of mankind. The next generations are worth protecting far more than our bank accounts, furnishings, and other property... Our progeny will run this world someday, a big screen tv just can't do that.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    The converse, I suppose, is the complete abandonment of security and deterrent devices... Let the bodies fall where they may... and try to catch the perpetrators after the fact.

    We are already in a world of endless security checkpoints, identification cards and access codes, video monitoring... but not so much the, armed guards... possibly because of the former... Heck, you can't even post on DC without a password, etc.

    Would you like me to be able to go to your bank and withdraw funds from your accounts on the basis that I told them I was indeed Clodbert?

    I cannot count on the benevolence of mankind. The next generations are worth protecting far more than our bank accounts, furnishings, and other property... Our progeny will run this world someday, a big screen tv just can't do that.
    If I sent you a picture of my sons HS and a prison you would not notice too much of a difference. We all want the kids to be safe, heck, we all want to be safe. But I am here to tell you that our schools, especially the new ones being built, are like prisons and the kids notice it.

    According to the reports in Newtown ID cards with strips would not have prevented the disaster.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    Senior Member Array KBSR's Avatar
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    I like your letter oakchas, though I'd opt for retired law enforcement and or retired or separated military troops, who will need jobs in this failing economy.

    Your effort to change the way the media thinks about these situations (It has to be the gun) is applauded here.
    " But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... Baa." Col. Dave Grossman on Sheep and Sheepdogs.

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    Member Array RmScadd's Avatar
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    Good letter. While I might differ with you on a point or two, the overall messages is right on. We should ALL be writing letters.
    NRA Life member
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    A muscle not exercised will eventually atrophy.
    A right not exercised will eventually be taken away!

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    According to the reports in Newtown ID cards with strips would not have prevented the disaster.
    That's true, from what I have read as well....

    However, had an armed Marine been present at the door, that might have...

    And next year....


    However, a properly secured school entry door, without glass, might have.

    If the admins, upon hearing gunfire in the entry, had armed and prepared to meet force with force, that might have...

    If the school janitor, in a hallway had been armed, and came to stop the threat, that might have.

    Had evil incarnate gotten to the class and found an armed teacher, that might have...

    But, none of those opportunities to stop a madman, or a genuine terrorist, were in place. So there was no possibility, no hope, no chance. 20 kids died... 6 adults died. No one had a fighting chance...
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  15. #14
    Member Array Clodbert's Avatar
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    While I don't advocate completely doing away with any and all security measures in every facet of life, I think we need to understand what's happening here. It seems we as a society are becoming more comfortable with and more dependent on someone else looking out for our safety. The argument could be made that as security measures become more prevalent, personal liberty and privacy decrease. One obvious example: we are searched head-to-toe and our belongings examined if we want to get on an airplane for vacation. If you consider safety in exchange for liberty and privacy to be an acceptable trade-off, then that's your choice. I would consider that unacceptable because I greatly value those things.

    My response to your suggestions is this: Let's not have the military and/or law enforcement set up post at every school in the country. Let's not retrofit educational buildings with TSA-style body scanners and implement pat-down procedures (if that's what you're implying). These would be horrendously expensive measures and would fall squarely on the already overburdened taxpayer. Would everyone want to pay for that? And I'm not sure how effective the measures you're suggesting would be. Our children might be safer, they might not. Many of the little ones might even be afraid that their school looks like a prison with armed guards and "barriers."

    I respect your position but more security is not always the best approach.

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    Senior Member Array Caertaker's Avatar
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    Terrorists count a win if they can change they way we go about our lives. People routinely subjected to their insanity stubbornly refuse to do so. Why are Americans so desperate to relinquish their normal lives (and other's rights) to protect against the exceedingly rare, indefensible acts of madmen?
    "I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations” – James Madison 1788

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