A new twist - Page 2

A new twist

This is a discussion on A new twist within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Where is this privilege junk coming from all of a sudden. I've seen several references to it today in the leftist blog-o-sphere and don't recall ...

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  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    A new twist

    Where is this privilege junk coming from all of a sudden. I've seen several references to it today in the leftist blog-o-sphere and don't recall seeing it before. Someone must have stirred that pot recently. It seems to go hand in hand with the front page article in the Sunday paper saying that the gun grabbers are trying to go after walmart to avoid legality issues that they will lose.
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  2. #17
    Member Array Frogman's Avatar
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    I think it's called, The Bill of RIGHTS.

    Jim

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Being an American gives me the right to own and bear arms. That we have allowed government to put restrictions on that right is our and our ancestors own fault. Now government believes it has a right to put restrictions on our right.

    The historical ending to that every time is the public allows government to get emboldened on what it can do. At some point the governed invariably rise up and put the government back in its place. Either by vote or failing that other means.
    I sincerely hope we have the smarts to be able to do it by vote and representation than waiting until other means are all thats left.
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    " It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by clc View Post
    The second amendment is not telling us we have the right to own a firearm. It is stating you have been given the privilege to own a firearm and the government has the option of taking that privilege away at any time.

    That's what we are about to see.

    Driving a car is a privilege as is owning a firearm. Both can be taken buy the government.
    If you've read any of the Debates on the Constitution you would know better. Everything in the Bill of Rights is an absolute guarantee, not a privilege. Just because our government has chosen to violate Constitutional principles doesn't mean they have the right to do it.
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    "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." ~ P. J. O'Rourke

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    The hand writing is on the wall. The preamble to Senator Feinstein's bill states "To regulate assault weapons, to ensure that the right to keep and bear arms is not unlimited, and for other purposes."

    The 2nd amendment allows the people to keep and bear arms, period. This means there can be no regulation to the contrary.

    Senator Feinstein stacked her bill know she can't have it all. She is banking on OK we will give you this and that but not this or that.

    If any bill is passed that contains Senator Feinstein's preamble and/or a ban on the weapons listed in her bill, it will then be time for the NRA and/or other 2nd advocate organizations to take it to the Supreme Court. Rather than sitting back and let "them" whittle away at our rights, the time has come to stand fast.
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array KyBill's Avatar
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    The spin meisters have been at this for a while, nothing new here, if you repeat something often and loud enough then quite a few people will nod and agree. When I was a child they taught us this was a common technique in totalitarian regimes and even gave it a name - "the big lie". I'm certain that no one on this board has missed that most of Obama's rhetoric try's to put gun ownership in term's of what weapons you 'need', hunting, and family traditions. He'll make it out that you are an extremist or that you don't care about our children or any other P.C. garbage that might intimidate us towards silence and obesience. Don't let him.
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  7. #22
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clc View Post
    If it is a right you cant loose it. Right?

    Just being an American doesn't give you the right to own a gun. It is privilege! Not a right!
    None of the Bill of Rights and amendments passed after them are a privilege they are rights. Granted over the years Congress/Presidents/Supreme Court have weakened many of these rights. Good example is Senator Feinstein's proposed gun bill. Her preamble in the bill says it all concerning how they are weakening our rights.

    Preamble
    To regulate assault weapons, to ensure that the right to keep and bear arms is not unlimited, and for other purposes.

    Senator Feinstein and the others that co-sponsored her bill took an oath to uphold the Constitution. However they completely ignore "shall not be infringed" in the 2nd amendment.

    The ultimate goal of the anti-gun advocates is to outlaw all firearms. Unless we can get a Supreme Court ruling to reinforce the 2nd amendment "they" will continue to whittle away at our rights. Sadly if this ban goes through they won't have much more to whittle away.
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  8. #23
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowman View Post
    The ultimate goal of the anti-gun advocates is to outlaw all firearms. Unless we can get a Supreme Court ruling to reinforce the 2nd amendment "they" will continue to whittle away at our rights. Sadly if this ban goes through they won't have much more to whittle away.
    I don't believe that this bill will go through. For starters, I understand that this nothing new and the stupid heifer has been introducing an AWB every year and it goes nowhere. This year will probably be the same thing and even the media acknowledges that it won't go anywhere. A lot of proposed legislation is allowed to simply die in committee, so there is nothing unusual about this.

    In terms of needing a SCOTUS ruling or something more definitive, this is really what I would call the proverbial between rock and a hard place. SCOTUS can't rule on it until such time as it has passed the legislature and we don't want it to pass the legislature. If it were to pass the legislature and get challenged, there is still a chance that it would fail challenge and that would be the end of legal recourse, save an uprising by the states and the nasty possibilities that would bring.

    So, we are basically stuck with it hinging on the legislature doing nothing. This too can be an ultimate looser of a proposition. Undoubtedly the politicians are sizing up what side of this argument it is in their interests to fall on. Would they lose votes by voting for it or against it? The D's don't want to risk losing any voice in the govt again like they did in 94 and current estimates put it at about 40% of the registered D's are gun owners, which pretty much matches the population as a whole. According to the DLC (Democratic Leadership Council), there is a sizable percentage of "gun swing vote" that could make or break their elections. See this 17 page PDF for enlightening details and this PDF of a power point presentation for more. According to these documents, if the D party fails to win 25% of this gun swing, they will lose heavily at the polls. This is probably what is keeping a lot of them in check and why we are not seeing forward movement in the D controlled senate. Lack of filibuster reform undoubtedly helps too as without a super majority, which they don't have the bill can be effectively killed.

    One disturbing trend I have noticed in the leftist blogs is that the core Progressives are starting to question whether or not their gun rights supporting brethren would choose gun rights over other Liberal social issues, claiming that those who would side with an R over the issue are really R's in disguise. This is clearly a psychological tactic to try to build the appearance of support for their gun grabbers, even if it is artificial. Interestingly, it has coincided with the tactic of claiming gun ownership is a privilege, not a right which seems to be derived from the several car analogies and movements to pressure retailers like Walmart to stop carrying guns while avoiding a legal confrontation. Clearly the gun grabbing opposition is starting to get organized.
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  9. #24
    clc
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokinFool View Post
    You can't "Cherry Pick" which of our rights are indeed rights. The Constitution protects all rights, and the Bill of Rights simply enumerates the ones that the founders were afraid may be usurped by the Gov't. The problem is that the 2A right is being treated as a privilege that has to be earned, and heavily regulated. It's interesting that the 2A is the only one that is being singled out. The anti's wouldn't dream of attacking the 1A, for instance, or 4th, or 5th, or...
    Quote Originally Posted by bombthrower77 View Post
    If you've read any of the Debates on the Constitution you would know better. Everything in the Bill of Rights is an absolute guarantee, not a privilege. Just because our government has chosen to violate Constitutional principles doesn't mean they have the right to do it.
    You can honestly believe this ^^
    If gun ' rights ' can be taken from one person they can be taken from everyone.
    That in itself makes the second amendment a privilege not a right.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by clc View Post
    You can honestly believe this ^^
    If gun ' rights ' can be taken from one person they can be taken from everyone.
    That in itself makes the second amendment a privilege not a right.
    You can't honestly believe this^^
    The right has been infringed to a greater degree over time, that is true. And, if it has eroded to the point of being a privilege, then it is only by consensus of the governed. But the right itself still exists; and many who believe it a privilege may soon discover the truth in that.

    I think that those who have constantly worked to erode the right (and sell the "privilege") are very soon to find "the governed" have drawn a line in the sand that the usurpers dare not cross.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  11. #26
    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
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    The breadth of responses to this thread are exactly the point in posting it in the first place: the effort to move a Right to a Privelage has very little distance to go if people can't understand the basic difference between those two. Our RIGHT to bear arms comes from the PRIVELAGE of being an American Citizen.
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
    1 Thess. 5:16-18

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by clc View Post
    You can honestly believe this ^^
    If gun ' rights ' can be taken from one person they can be taken from everyone.
    That in itself makes the second amendment a privilege not a right.
    Again, I'd just ask that you read the commentary from the men who wrote it. It's clear what THEY meant by the 2A. The fact that the government might use force against me to infringe that right, is no different than someone off the street infringing on it. That is unless you think the government is somehow "more human" or "better" or "more important" than anyone else.
    "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." ~ P. J. O'Rourke

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by clc View Post
    You can honestly believe this ^^
    If gun ' rights ' can be taken from one person they can be taken from everyone.
    That in itself makes the second amendment a privilege not a right.
    Again, I'd just ask that you read the commentary from the men who wrote it. It's clear what THEY meant by the 2A. The fact that the government might use force against me to infringe that right, is no different than someone off the street infringing on it. That is unless you think the government is somehow "more human" or "better" or "more important" than anyone else.
    "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." ~ P. J. O'Rourke

  14. #29
    Distinguished Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    It doesn't stop here. First they converted our 2nd Amendment right into a government-granted privilege. Someday school children will be taught that the Founding Fathers got together and decided what to "allow" the citizenry to do.
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  15. #30
    clc
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    Quote Originally Posted by bombthrower77 View Post
    Again, I'd just ask that you read the commentary from the men who wrote it. It's clear what THEY meant by the 2A. The fact that the government might use force against me to infringe that right, is no different than someone off the street infringing on it. That is unless you think the government is somehow "more human" or "better" or "more important" than anyone else.
    Brother I don't think this government is better than much at all much less people. They are making everyone think that gun ownership is a privilege they can take.

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