A new twist

A new twist

This is a discussion on A new twist within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; At least I've not heard this twist yet, but I'm afraid with the right spin .... something the media sets the standard on .... this ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 31
Like Tree29Likes

Thread: A new twist

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,811

    A new twist

    At least I've not heard this twist yet, but I'm afraid with the right spin .... something the media sets the standard on .... this could have some damaging ramifications:

    Around world, gun rules, and results, vary wildly


    If they succeed at twisting the rhetoric from "right" to "privilege", they'll convince people that they're willing to let you keep your guns as long as you know it's a privilege, not a right.

    Kind of like driving. I've never believed driving a car that I purchased on a road that I paid for a privilege.
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
    1 Thess. 5:16-18


  2. #2
    Member Array Stormin1155's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    68
    But we have the 2nd Amendment. Unfortunately the anti-gunners have little regard for it.

  3. #3
    clc
    clc is offline
    Member Array clc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    southeast ga
    Posts
    29
    If they succeed at twisting the rhetoric from "right" to "privelage", they'll convince people that they're willing to let you keep your guns as long as you know it's a privelage, not a right.

    I believe the US to has already twisted it. It is no longer a right to own or bear arms for Americans and it hasn't been for a long time.

    Saying you have a right doesn't mean " you actually have the right"
    Tangle likes this.

  4. #4
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,822
    Guys, the "right" "boat" has sailed. It left the dock with the carry permit. The carry permit licenses a person to carry a gun. If you don't have the state license to carry, then it's illegal to carry a concealed gun - you have no right without that state license - just like a car. You can own a car without a license, you just can't drive it on public roads. What happens if someone gets caught carrying a concealed gun without the license? Ask James Yeager about 'rights'.

    I never understood why we were so excited to get a state license to carry a concealed gun in the first place. Why do we need a state license to exercise a right?
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  5. #5
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,822
    Quote Originally Posted by clc View Post
    If they succeed at twisting the rhetoric from "right" to "privelage", they'll convince people that they're willing to let you keep your guns as long as you know it's a privelage, not a right.

    I believe the US to has already twisted it. It is no longer a right to own or bear arms for Americans and it hasn't been for a long time.

    Saying you have a right doesn't mean " you actually have the right"
    We must have been typing at the same time!

    Well, we do have the right to own arms; it's the bearing that's the issue.
    Rock and Glock likes this.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  6. #6
    clc
    clc is offline
    Member Array clc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    southeast ga
    Posts
    29
    If it is a right you cant lose it. Right?

    Just being an American doesn't give you the right to own a gun. It is privilege! Not a right!

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Array bombthrower77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    527
    Roads are public spaces designed for the use of vehicles and are paid for with taxpayer money. I can see the logic of a license to use in that regard. If I had an old truck that I used on my property and never took it on the road, why is that any of the state's business? Same way with a gun. What part of the public domain am I using by carrying a weapon on my person or property? Is it because I "might" do something publicly with it? Sadly, we've become a nation of people who want laws against what might occur as opposed to focusing on punishing actual harm.
    cmdrdredd and Bill MO like this.
    "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." ~ P. J. O'Rourke

  8. #8
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,822
    Quote Originally Posted by clc View Post
    If it is a right you cant loose it. Right?
    You may have the right to own a gun as a human being, but if a government has the power to prevent you from owning a gun then you still have the right because you are a human, but it's still illegal if the government says so. Criminals lose the right to own, or even be in the presence of a gun. So, in effect, yes, you can lose rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by clc View Post
    ...Just being an American doesn't give you the right to own a gun. It is privilege! Not a right!
    Sure it's a right; just because I'm an American citizen, I can go buy a gun right now if I want to.
    clc, cmdrdredd and Rock and Glock like this.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  9. #9
    clc
    clc is offline
    Member Array clc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    southeast ga
    Posts
    29
    The second amendment is not telling us we have the right to own a firearm. It is stating you have been given the privilege to own a firearm and the government has the option of taking that privilege away at any time.

    That's what we are about to see.

    Driving a car is a privilege as is owning a firearm. Both can be taken buy the government.

  10. #10
    Moderator
    Array gasmitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    10,619
    I just love the "gun deaths in the US versus Japan argument." Hardly a new twist.

    Vastly different society, far less ethnic diversity than the US today, and if you want to compare meaningful numbers, look at the overall mortality rates of both countries. Japan's is almost 20% higher than that of the US, and by the way, their suicide rate is about the highest in the world. All without guns.

    Not to mention, Japan doesn't have a Constitution that limits the powers of the government.
    mano3 likes this.
    Smitty
    NRA Endowment Member

  11. #11
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,822
    Quote Originally Posted by clc View Post
    The second amendment is not telling us we have the right to own a firearm. It is stating you have been given the privilege to own a firearm and the government has the option of taking that privilege away at any time.
    The 2A recognizes the pre-existing right to own and bear arms and protects that right. The 2A did not create the right; merely protects the existing right against the government taking it away.

    Quote Originally Posted by clc View Post
    ...Driving a car is a privilege as is owning a firearm. Both can be taken buy the government.
    Same thing I said.
    Ghost1958 likes this.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    1,997
    Quote Originally Posted by bigmacque View Post
    If they succeed at twisting the rhetoric from "right" to "privelage", they'll convince people that they're willing to let you keep your guns as long as you know it's a privelage, not a right.
    "If," you say? Ever hear of concealed carry permits? Let's see now.... in order for me to exercise my 2nd Amendment right, I had to:

    Take a class - $85.00
    Buy ammo for the class - roughly $30.00
    Get fingerprinted - $50.00
    Take time off work to get fingerprinted - roughly $24.00 at the time
    Order a certified copy of my birth certificate from a records service - $45.00 plus shipping
    The permit itself - $120.00

    Meanwhile, any punk or gang banger can just slip a weapon in his pocket and go.

    So yeah, it was converted to a "privilege" a long time ago.
    Last edited by SpringerXD; January 28th, 2013 at 12:00 PM.
    "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."

    -miklcolt45

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    7,421
    Quote Originally Posted by clc View Post
    If it is a right you cant loose it. Right?

    Just being an American doesn't give you the right to own a gun. It is privilege! Not a right!
    Yes, I saw that in the Bill of Privileges....

    Oh and BTW, the " the right of the people to keep and bear Arms" <<< direct quotation, incidentally. Not only "shall not be infringed." But according to the U.S. Federal Government it's own self, does not require one to be an "American" (as in citizen). It applies to any who reside here (the legality of their residence might be brought into question as regards the right, but that is not specified).

    Now, if you mean that the right has, in effect, been reduced to privilege... you might be correct. But you wouldn't be right.
    gator15 and zacii like this.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array SmokinFool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,297
    You can't "Cherry Pick" which of our rights are indeed rights. The Constitution protects all rights, and the Bill of Rights simply enumerates the ones that the founders were afraid may be usurped by the Gov't. The problem is that the 2A right is being treated as a privilege that has to be earned, and heavily regulated. It's interesting that the 2A is the only one that is being singled out. The anti's wouldn't dream of attacking the 1A, for instance, or 4th, or 5th, or...
    surefire7, clc and Ghost1958 like this.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    2,037
    Quote Originally Posted by bigmacque View Post
    At least I've not heard this twist yet, but I'm afraid with the right spin .... something the media sets the standard on .... this could have some damaging ramifications:

    Around world, gun rules, and results, vary wildly


    If they succeed at twisting the rhetoric from "right" to "privelage", they'll convince people that they're willing to let you keep your guns as long as you know it's a privelage, not a right.

    Kind of like driving. I've never believed driving a car that I purchased on a road that I paid for a privelage.
    Well, it's written in the Bill of Rights I would like to see a someone put the brakes a little bit on the leeway given to the 1st amendment honestly. People like the Westboro Baptists can picket a funeral and spew all kinds of vile crap in front of grieving families and there's nobody saying "you aren't allowed to do that, that's going too far." While there are idiots saying "you aren't allowed to own this gun, that's going too far". Nobody talks about "reasonable restriction" there do they? If you are going to target one then go after the ACLU and others who preach hate.

    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    I just love the "gun deaths in the US versus Japan argument." Hardly a new twist.

    Vastly different society, far less ethnic diversity than the US today, and if you want to compare meaningful numbers, look at the overall mortality rates of both countries. Japan's is almost 20% higher than that of the US, and by the way, their suicide rate is about the highest in the world. All without guns.

    Not to mention, Japan doesn't have a Constitution that limits the powers of the government.
    Japanese culture breeds suicide culture. From ancient times the Japanese have been obsessed with being honorable and if your honor is broken in such a way you cannot regain it, you are almost required to commit ritual suicide. This has translated incorrectly to today's youth who think it's more honorable to just end it all than to work through adversity.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •