The Problem Is Not Gun Laws’

This is a discussion on The Problem Is Not Gun Laws’ within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Did not know where to post it or even if this follows the rules of the forum. If this post does not follow the rules, ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16

Thread: The Problem Is Not Gun Laws’

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array txron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    833

    The Problem Is Not Gun Laws’

    Did not know where to post it or even if this follows the rules of the forum. If this post does not follow the rules, I apologize, but I thought is was worth posting here.?The Problem Is Not Gun Laws?: Watch the Emotional Speech by a Sandy Hook Victim?s Dad That Got a Standing Ovation | Video | TheBlaze.com
    No trees were harmed in the construction of this post. However a large number of electrons were indiscriminately aroused.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Moderator
    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    44,665
    A great post, and one the media and the government will ignore.
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

    ***********************************
    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member[/B]

  4. #3
    Ex Member Array gregnsc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    455
    I truly don't think,any anti-gun person will change their minds,no matter what is said.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Array txron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    833
    Quote Originally Posted by gregnsc View Post
    I truly don't think,any anti-gun person will change their minds,no matter what is said.
    Unfortunately, I think you are right.
    No trees were harmed in the construction of this post. However a large number of electrons were indiscriminately aroused.

  6. #5
    Member Array Rawah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    128
    He really nails it with the points he makes in my opinion also....

  7. #6
    Member Array AZ_Larz_NY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Chandler
    Posts
    288
    Good post. What a brave dad to be able to say what he did in times like this!

    Be safe!
    NEVER point a gun at something you are not prepared to destroy!
    AND for GODS sake, get your finger off the trigger until you are ready to squeeze the trigger!

  8. #7
    Member
    Array RoadKill's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Southern Middle Tennessee
    Posts
    219
    If laws would do it then we wouldn't have nearly 12000 killed a year by drunk drivers, speeding, a need for the War on Drugs, fraud, tax cheating, etc.
    If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd taken better care of myself when I was younger

  9. #8
    Member Array farmermom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    racine county
    Posts
    99

    Haven't heard

    Quote Originally Posted by txron View Post
    Did not know where to post it or even if this follows the rules of the forum. If this post does not follow the rules, I apologize, but I thought is was worth posting here.?The Problem Is Not Gun Laws?: Watch the Emotional Speech by a Sandy Hook Victim?s Dad That Got a Standing Ovation | Video | TheBlaze.com
    I have yet to see anyone say anything about all the physicians getting people hooked on all the drugs they so readily hand out. I know of at least 3 people in the last year that have had surgery and ended up being hooked on powerful drugs afterwards. I know of one that doesn't know what he is doing half the time. There has to start being some accountably for the pill pushers that hand out these powerful drugs legally.

  10. #9
    Member Array Clodbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    205
    Quote Originally Posted by farmermom View Post
    I have yet to see anyone say anything about all the physicians getting people hooked on all the drugs they so readily hand out. I know of at least 3 people in the last year that have had surgery and ended up being hooked on powerful drugs afterwards. I know of one that doesn't know what he is doing half the time. There has to start being some accountably for the pill pushers that hand out these powerful drugs legally.


    Many, many people have mentioned pharmaceutical companies and prescription medication as they search for answers as to what caused this latest tragedy. The problem with blaming these drugs is it's the same thing as blaming guns: it's ridiculous. Where's the evidence that certain medications cause murderous rampages? Don't point to a list of potential side effects. Show me the data. There is none. We can't fall into this trap of blaming inanimate objects or other people, we must blame the perpetrator. That person pulled the trigger. You'll see news stories and articles that the alleged shooter in this latest shooting was mentally ill and was taking prescription medication. But that hasn't been confirmed and much doubt remains and will remain as to its veracity. Besides, it's almost entirely meaningless. We don't know whether or not this person would have committed this act had he not been on prescription medication and not been mentally ill (that's still uncertain as well).

    There is massive accountability for the "pill pushers." Just like there already is massive accountability for gun owners. Don't make the mistake of thinking more regulation will help when what you're suggesting to be regulated has never and will never be proven to be a causative agent in gun violence. These are difficult situations that impact us all on an emotional level but firearms, prescription medications, physicians, and the pharmaceutical drug industry had absolutely nothing to do with it. Let's not fall into that backwards thinking.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array SigPapa226's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    588
    I have noted that some drugs have warnings that going on .... or coming off the drug can cause depression and suicidal tendencies. Even some of the TV advertisement mentions these types of side effects.

    I do not find it difficult to believe that a mentally ill person could be adversely affected by some drugs, even those given to supposedly counter his mental illness. Remember Thalidomide? It had unintended side affects not found until it had been long in use.

    The brain/mind is still not a well understood organism and what works in one, or some, does not necessarily work in all. Not necessarily arguing pro or con, just saying its is a factor to be taken in consideration, particularly when one suddenly stops taking prescribed medications ... there appears to be a "bounce" in the wrong direction making the psychosis worse.
    Ten Bears: It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Ky Backwoods
    Posts
    4,722
    The consistent correlation between maniacal mass-murderers & certain prescription drugs is irrefutable. Yet so is the argument that there was a previously evident mental condition that subsequently resulted in those drugs being prescribed. Our society is becoming more violent with a lessening of concern on the part of the perpetrators for the repercussions of their own violent actions. Gun restrictions & bans only serve to erode the capacity (pardon the pun) for sane, rational people to protect themselves & their families FROM these increasingly common acts of violence. No guns, more laws & more police provide no increased protection from it. The truth is, quite the contrary.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  13. #12
    Member Array Clodbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    205
    Sigpapa: Everything you typed is true. There are potential side effects to many medications and the hypothesis that certain prescription drugs associate with or may even cause violent behavior might be plausible. But playing devil's advocate, you could also say that the hypothesis that more guns associates with or may even cause violent behavior might be plausible as well.

    These things have to be proven before we jump to conclusions and start issuing blame. We do ourselves no favors when we dabble in conjecture instead of staying firmly rooted to data and evidence. You're absolutely right in implying that a deeper understanding of these medications and how they relate to human behavior is needed. Research is ongoing in that area. But just because something appears plausible or obvious doesn't make it so. I think blaming pharmaceutical companies for these events is as negligent as blaming firearms manufacturers.

    Edit: In response to ghost tracker's post, that's a correlation. It does not imply cause and effect. Again, we're getting ahead of ourselves. Remember, the anti-gun crowd is using correlations to support their argument that more guns equates to more gun crime. Don't use those same tactics that are underpinned by a faulty understanding of causality. We're smarter than that.

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Ky Backwoods
    Posts
    4,722
    ...more guns associates with or may even cause violent behavior...
    There is much, MUCH more scientific empirical evidence relating the use of certain anti-depression medications to acts of random violence & suicide than have EVER been presented relating the same sorts of acts to any association with firearms. Your example has a logic leak.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  15. #14
    Member Array Clodbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    205
    But are we willing to infer from that research that "anti-depression medication" (or any other kind of prescription medication) causes a person to commit mass shootings or violent crimes using guns?

    What I'm saying is to be careful in how we're issuing blame. Countless people throughout the world take and rely upon those medications everyday to improve their quality of life. I don't think these people would appreciate a blanket statement implicating their prescription medication as a causative agent in mass shootings. Just because a certain pill bottle is in their medicine cabinet doesn't make them a violent criminal in waiting. The parallel is law-abiding citizens who legally own firearms don't appreciate blanket statements that they might be violent criminals in waiting just because of what's in their gun safe.

    Ron Paul had an excellent blog post recently about how wrong it is for people to clamor for the government to "do something" following these tragedies. What are we to do about these medications? There are potential side effects, but they present differently in different people taking the drug, some more so than others, if they even present at all. Do we ban these medications? No, that's as silly and pointless as banning guns. I stated in my previous post that more research is needed on these prescription medications. But I don't think we can even consider blaming prescription medication or pharmaceutical companies for violent gun crime in the absence of unequivocal peer-reviewed data supporting it, which I doubt we'll ever have.

  16. #15
    Senior Member Array SigPapa226's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    588
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    There is much, MUCH more scientific empirical evidence relating the use of certain anti-depression medications to acts of random violence & suicide than have EVER been presented relating the same sorts of acts to any association with firearms. Your example has a logic leak.
    Agree!

    I am for debate, it is healthy. However, there are a few that constantly & consistently advise everyone to roll over & accept it. .... to just accept a few more rules & we will all be safe.

    Well what has happened in NY, without debate changes the equation. Tyranny is already upon us & the only debate should be about how to fight back. Every peaceful option should be explored, and then every other option.

    The time to debate what caused Newtown & Aurora is over. The attack has begun, we need to decide the most effective counterattack. At this time the rest is secondary.
    Ten Bears: It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

2 amendment gun law problem

,

?the problem is not gun laws?: watch the emotional speech by a sandy hook victim?s dad that got a standing ovation

Click on a term to search for related topics.