Article in NYT: Confessions of a Liberal Gun Owner - Page 3

Article in NYT: Confessions of a Liberal Gun Owner

This is a discussion on Article in NYT: Confessions of a Liberal Gun Owner within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Like I said, there are good, bad, and indifferent parts to the article. No, he still doesn't get it with regards to gun control measures ...

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Like I said, there are good, bad, and indifferent parts to the article. No, he still doesn't get it with regards to gun control measures and why they're a bad thing. Perhaps he doesn't understand the agenda or motivations of those pushing them. Maybe its denial. But it seems he has certainly moved a long way towards a more favorable position from where he started. His journey on this matter won't be asl long as it has been. Perhaps these are some of the people we can reach. Perhaps not. I just thought it was interesting and made me think outside of my own perspective. That doesn't change my position or my passion, it just helps me frame my approach when dealing with a wide range of people in an effort to garner support.
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  2. #32
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    Not to belittle the points posted, nor principles, but if we are concerned about 2A rights, we need to spend some time writing and emailing our representatives. If you haven't contacted your federal reps, maybe you contact them and then get back to posting.

    Wouldn't it be interesting to have a board rule that says you can't post about 2A rights and threats to those rights until you have contacted your legislators? Would that separate the ones that talk from the ones that really care?

    And, yes, I have contacted and received replies from my reps.

    While we may believe new bills may not get through Congress, our legislators will be pressured to vote for gun control measures. If they don't hear otherwise, and in force, from us, they might see that as us not caring strongly about it.

    Sorry for the rant, but we need to do a little to encourage and urge our reps to support gun rights and strongly oppose gun control measures.
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  3. #33
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    Easy Tangle, I contacted my federal and state-level reps long ago - for all the good it will do.

    Just like there are no atheists in foxholes, there are no anti-gun people when they are face to face with a possible imminent threat to their life, or the life of their loved ones. Then they get it - though possibly too late.

    The author of the article unknowingly gave the very reason why semi-auto rifles are a very good choice for home defense - the significant recoil difference versus a shotgun. This makes a so-called "assault rifle" better suited for use by women or others of smaller stature. It is for this very reason that our Mini 14 has taken over primary home defense duties from my Remington 870 pump shotgun. Plus, being a semi-auto, the Mini 14 is easier to use - especially for my wife.

    Maybe the NRA and other organizations need to get female members to explain this to our lawmakers. They would have a hard time arguing with women who just want a tool to defend themselves and their children. Just a thought.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post

    The author of the article unknowingly gave the very reason why semi-auto rifles are a very good choice for home defense - the significant recoil difference versus a shotgun. This makes a so-called "assault rifle" better suited for use by women or others of smaller stature. It is for this very reason that our Mini 14 has taken over primary home defense duties from my Remington 870 pump shotgun. Plus, being a semi-auto, the Mini 14 is easier to use - especially for my wife.

    Maybe the NRA and other organizations need to get female members to explain this to our lawmakers. They would have a hard time arguing with women who just want a tool to defend themselves and their children.
    My wife loves her AR and does not want to see it go away. But, like many women, she's also a peacemaker and does not want to get into it with anyone about the 2A. Her mother is virulently anti-gun and my wife refuses to discuss the AR issue with her. My wife could be a great role model of a responsible female gun owner, but she won't do it.

  5. #35
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    Most people are non confrontational. They just dont want to make waves.

    It's the very reason that the anti's constantly take adavantage of peoples good nature and ignorance when they try to shove anti-gun schemes down our throats.
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  6. #36
    Distinguished Member Array Madcap_Magician's Avatar
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    He's still a fool, just not a totally ignorant one.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    He's an idiot and still doesn't get it. Just b/c he owns a few guns doesn't mean he's on our side.
    The AR-15 is a fascinating weapon, and, frankly, a gas to shoot. So is a tank, and I donít need to own a tank.


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  8. #38
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    I always try to be diplomatic in discussions with left/liberal types simply because I believe in manners and civility, but I've given up on feeling like I have to apologize for my conservative libertarian values to anyone ever. The writer of this article has taken the first step down a long road that I've walked in my life from a fairly liberal upbringing to my current views of things.

    You know what changed those views? REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE. Just like for this individual in this case.

    Pop-culture platitudes are wonderful to live by when you have the privelege of being insulated from their consequences, but life experience often puts you face to face with the fact that no one else can take responsibility for keeping you safe, making you prosperous and preserving your freedom except YOU. Our country has too many people concentrated in places where they are so deeply inured to their dependence on services provided by others to survive, that they have ceased to recognize how helpless they will be if that real world experience comes crashing in on them (like the weather event he spoke of).

    Someone once said we should be careful about giving power to anyone unless we can be content with the worst possible thing they could do with it. For me, this includes EVERY area where I cede my personal responsibility to ANYONE for ANYTHING. We live in a modern society and I am forced to depend on others much of the time, but at least I do it with my eyes open and I often think about what I might do if the ones I depend on ceased to be there. The writer of this article has just begun that eyes-open journey. Good for him. I hope he continues.
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  9. #39
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    I read the piece and it was one of those glass half full/glass half empty situations. People like him can be written off as 'useful idiots' or seen as relative newbies who have already recognized the need for armed defense and now can be educated about why AR's and mags over 10 rounds make sense for some folks and - even if he doesn't see the need for them himself - can be educated about why banning them would violate the 2A based on Heller

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by miller_man View Post
    I like it, even though he's not at the same place most of us are. There are alot of people out there who aren't sure exactly where they are on the gun control issue, but they have realized they do want a gun/guns for protection. I've been seeing alot of friends and family who are not guns owners or pro 2A but have decided with all the shootings and gun debate, they need to get a gun.
    I agree, and that's a great point. If we can ever effectively make such folks realize that the ultimate goal is complete disarmament, we would gain millions of new allies. But as it stands, too many people believe, "Oh, they only want to ban those 'assault' rifles and I don't care about that. They'll never bother me about my .357 Magnum revolver."
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXD View Post
    I agree, and that's a great point. If we can ever effectively make such folks realize that the ultimate goal is complete disarmament, we would gain millions of new allies. But as it stands, too many people believe, "Oh, they only want to ban those 'assault' rifles and I don't care about that. They'll never bother me about my .357 Magnum revolver."
    I keep seeing this all the time in the blogs. Couple this with the idea that they really do believe that if they take away the tool used by mass murders, the evil "assault weapon" whose sole purpose is to kill lots of people very fast, and require the manufacturers to only produce magazines that can hold 10 rounds and make it so you can't remove the magazine that it would put an end to the mass killings. I honestly, just. don't. get. it.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    they really do believe that if they take away the tool used by mass murders, the evil "assault weapon" whose sole purpose is to kill lots of people very fast, and require the manufacturers to only produce magazines that can hold 10 rounds and make it so you can't remove the magazine that it would put an end to the mass killings. I honestly, just. don't. get. it.
    That nails the problem right on the head! THEY ACTUALLY BELIEVE THEY ARE IN CONTROL.

    At least most of US live a real enough life to realize that out on the real streets and highways the powers that be in their ivory towers have NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on that lowlife in the next alley that wants my wallet.

    None of these people in power have to live a normal life like the rest of us. They live in a fantasy world where everyone tells them "YES SIR" all the time, and they have no idea how little effect their wishful thinking and good intentions have on anyone except the people who already obeyed the laws before. That effect is mostly negative in the end, but they also never stop to look back and logically analyze the real effect of what they've done. They just move on to the next well-intentioned crusade, and feel great about themselves while doing it.

    It's still the best system in the world, but we have to engage with these issues to keep it that way.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    Making the assumption that liberal = anti gun and conservative = pro gun is plain and simply IGNORANT. The sad thing is that it is something I hear repeated on this 20 times a day. The number of potential allies you folks manage to alienate with your gross sweeping generalizations astounds me. Sorry... /rant off
    ^With all due respect Rollo^^^^^^^

    The author of the article is lost as to what natural rights are, and why our fore-fathers adressed these in the Declaration and Constitution.
    He says he owns this gun and that gun;
    From article
    I think guns are woefully under-regulated. Itís far too easy to buy a gun ó I once bought one in a parking lot ó and I loathe the National Rifle Association. Some of the Obama administrationís proposals strike me as more symbolic than effective, with some 300 million firearms on the loose. But the White Houseís recommendations seem like a good starting point and nothing that would prevent me from protecting my family in a crisis. The AR-15 is a fascinating weapon, and, frankly, a gas to shoot. So is a tank, and I donít need to own a tank.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrow75 View Post
    Good article, although I don't think he truly understands the threat that the presidents proposals have the potential to be against the 2nd Amendment. As a former liberal who still has a few lingering left-leaning sentiments,I appreciate that he embraces responsible gun ownership but he seems to look at it on a purely academic level, almost as if he is one step removed from the true purpose for the right to keep and bear arms. I do think he is coming around though and see this as a progression to one day fully understanding the 2nd Amendment.
    ^^YEP^^^^^^^
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    "AR15 is a gas to shoot, but so is a tank, and I don't need a tank"

    "I loathe the NRA"

    DANG almost liked him there for a minute....
    ^Uh huh^^^^^^^^^^^!

    Any polititian who does not trust US with a firearm, doesn't deserve to hold office, for they are afraid of one thing, and one thing only...........
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  14. #44
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    What I said stands on it's own regardless of what the article says.

    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    ^With all due respect Rollo^^^^^^^

    The author of the article is lost as to what natural rights are, and why our fore-fathers adressed these in the Declaration and Constitution.
    He says he owns this gun and that gun;
    From article
    I think guns are woefully under-regulated. It’s far too easy to buy a gun — I once bought one in a parking lot — and I loathe the National Rifle Association. Some of the Obama administration’s proposals strike me as more symbolic than effective, with some 300 million firearms on the loose. But the White House’s recommendations seem like a good starting point and nothing that would prevent me from protecting my family in a crisis. The AR-15 is a fascinating weapon, and, frankly, a gas to shoot. So is a tank, and I don’t need to own a tank.



    ^^YEP^^^^^^^
    I agree.



    ^Uh huh^^^^^^^^^^^!

    Any polititian who does not trust US with a firearm, doesn't deserve to hold office, for they are afraid of one thing, and one thing only...........
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    Comments like this, or rather the attitude and closed minds behind them, are a perfect example of why gun rights are hanging in the balance. Part of the problem is that far too many think that it is acceptable to dictate to others which select subset of rights they are permitted to exercise.
    Ummmm, that's exactly what we are fighting against. The one's that promote gun control are the ones attempting to dictate to others which subsets of rights are permitted, they're the ones with closed minds as they refuse to educate themselves on the tools they are attempting to condemn, they're the ones who refuse to educate themselves on the tools actually used the most in crimes, they're the ones who refuse to educate themselves about how to prevent crimes, they're the ones that refuse to educate themselves about the state society has degraded to, they're the ones who admit their solutions won't work yet still try to ram them down others' throats, they're the ones who refuse to address the real problems in society b/c of PC'ness, they're the ones that come up with "you have to pass the bill so you can read it", they're the ones ... (oops, don't want to get into other topics unrelated to the forum). For the record, I'm not at all happy with the GOP either; it's just the lefties, as a group, are the ones appropriately targeted on this board.

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