No to Universal Background Checks

This is a discussion on No to Universal Background Checks within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; In another thread, I confessed that up until recently, the background checks didn't seem to be too unreasonable. I guess I have seen through the ...

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Thread: No to Universal Background Checks

  1. #1
    Member Array niks's Avatar
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    No to Universal Background Checks

    In another thread, I confessed that up until recently, the background checks didn't seem to be too unreasonable.
    I guess I have seen through the cloak and understand the true impact of such a statute. The following op-ed only reinforces it.

    "Universal Background Checks" ? Absolutely Not
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    To me the background checks assume you are guilty until proven innocent, why must I be treated like a criminal just because I want to buy a firearm.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
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    Ex Member Array gregnsc's Avatar
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    I had said it wouldn't bother me either,but,i didn't know at first,it meant gun registration.What i have or buy,isn't anyone's business.
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    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    I have never been in favor of them.

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    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    No to Universal Background Checks

    FWIW, this is a snippet from a letter I wrote to my reps on this topic:

    Another issue that has been receiving a lot of press lately is the so-called “gun show loophole”, or more accurately, the lack of government background check requirement for private sales. While changing this approach sounds unobtrusive at first glance, consider – should the government really be involved if you wish to give a firearm you own to your spouse or to your child? In my opinion the analogy is alcohol sales. It is your responsibility not to give alcohol you purchase to minors. In Washington state many individuals already employ a common sense approach avoid selling to ineligible buyers by checking they have a current concealed weapons permit.
    -john
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    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
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    Its about gun registration!!
    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. Albert Einstein

    "People in Arizona carry guns," said a Chandler police spokesman. "You better be careful about who you are picking on."

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    Member Array J.Thompson's Avatar
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    I'm not really a fan of the checks but I'm a reasonable man and I understand the intent of the checks currently in place. Imagine if there were no checks at all; not only would we be able to buy our firearms but criminals could too. After all, with no background check the dealer has no idea if you're a felon or not. The idea of registration doesn't sit well with me but in essence we already register anyway; they knew I was a gun owner as soon as I got my carry permit. I know some argue that the permits and background checks are an infringement and shouldn't be required. But without those things in place the problems we face now would pale in comparison.

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    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Thompson View Post
    But without those things in place the problems we face now would pale in comparison.
    You used to only have to sign a form saying all the statements were true. Before that, you could get guns through the mail. We did not have these problems then.

    Of course, we used to actually prosecute criminals, too.

    The checks we have are sufficient.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    ...
    Of course, we used to actually prosecute criminals, too.

    The checks we have are sufficient.
    Bingo.
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  11. #10
    Member Array J.Thompson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    You used to only have to sign a form saying all the statements were true. Before that, you could get guns through the mail. We did not have these problems then.

    Of course, we used to actually prosecute criminals, too.

    The checks we have are sufficient.
    I think we still had the same problems; they are probably worse now if we compare the crime rates between then and now. But we're also in a much different cultural climate now. I remember even twenty years ago when I was a kid, we never locked our doors or worried about any kind of crime where I lived. Now? Not even the same culture. Kids are inundated with violence on TV, in movies, in music. The internet is full of violence and kids idolize rappers and actors that glorify a violent lifestyle. Gangs are more prevelant, people are struggling financially and are desperate. Our mental health system and our government in general has failed us as a society. There are plenty of factors to which there have been few solutions.

    The point is, we may not like what's become of gun owners. But we need to look at this with reason. It'd be awesome if backgroumd checks weren't necessary but that's little more than a pipe dream now.

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    Member Array pmspaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Thompson View Post
    I think we still had the same problems; they are probably worse now if we compare the crime rates between then and now. But we're also in a much different cultural climate now. I remember even twenty years ago when I was a kid, we never locked our doors or worried about any kind of crime where I lived. Now? Not even the same culture. Kids are inundated with violence on TV, in movies, in music. The internet is full of violence and kids idolize rappers and actors that glorify a violent lifestyle. Gangs are more prevelant, people are struggling financially and are desperate. Our mental health system and our government in general has failed us as a society. There are plenty of factors to which there have been few solutions.

    The point is, we may not like what's become of gun owners. But we need to look at this with reason. It'd be awesome if backgroumd checks weren't necessary but that's little more than a pipe dream now.
    This right here is what I cannot understand. In one breath you acknowledge that it's the other factors that are the reason for increased violence. Then you say it's reasonable to succumb to UBC's and subsequently registration which we all know will not affect the cause or the criminals.

    It is not reasonable to pass laws which violate the US Constitution. The reasons our rights have been eroded to where they are now is because people before us compromised them. If we continue to do things in the interest of being reasonable, all my grand children will know is that in the old days people had guns and shot for pleasure and now anyone with a gun is a criminal.

    So I ask you sir, where is your line in the sand. When is enough infringement enough?
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    Member Array PeterCartwright's Avatar
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    I don't have a problem with the current NICS system. But as Wayne LaPierre just told the senate panel, the current administration has done virtually nothing to prosecute illegals NICS caught. (I think he said there were only 48 prosecutions out of those who illegally sought to obtain firearms). Sadly, I can't trust my own government to do what it says it will do, nor can I trust them to be lawful or proper stewards of information (like registration of firearms/firearms owners) which could be abused. And the actions/attitudes of the current administration have only increased my distrust. Our democratic republic requires two things to work. First, there must be an overwhelming willingness to self-govern. Police states rely on the brute force of the state to enforce their will on the people. Our system assumes that the lion's share of the population will obey laws by themselves. Second, there must be basic trust in the integrity of those who govern. This is quite different from agreeing with their viewpoints. My sense is, both sides of this equation are evaporating before our eyes.

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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Just an incremental step to registration. The only way to know if a gun was purchased with a UBC is if it is registered. Just a Trojan horse.
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    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    We don't need gun control, we need criminal control. Think about this: if someone has something in their background that society thinks should be grounds to deny them a firearm, what does that mean? It means that we had that person in custody, convicted them of a felony (or proved they are mentally ill), and then RELEASED THEM BACK AMONGST US ALL.

    "Let's play a game, Mr. Felon. We'll let you out of prison if you promise not to play with guns. Does that sound like a fun game?"

    "Yes, sir Mr. President. There's no guns in my residence!"

    If we don't pull our heads out and solve the real problem, the only thing that will happen is the further destruction of our rights, our constitution, and our country. 'Gun control' is attempting to solve the wrong problem.
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    VIP Member Array Jetfuelrm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmspaul View Post
    This right here is what I cannot understand. In one breath you acknowledge that it's the other factors that are the reason for increased violence. Then you say it's reasonable to succumb to UBC's and subsequently registration which we all know will not affect the cause or the criminals.

    It is not reasonable to pass laws which violate the US Constitution. The reasons our rights have been eroded to where they are now is because people before us compromised them. If we continue to do things in the interest of being reasonable, all my grand children will know is that in the old days people had guns and shot for pleasure and now anyone with a gun is a criminal.

    So I ask you sir, where is your line in the sand. When is enough infringement enough?
    Very well said great post. I know my line in the sand has been drawn and I hope most other people's line has been drawn as well. I am 50 years old and it seems everything I grew up believing and taught is being trampled upon. No to universal background checks. I'm pretty sick and tired of the government trying to run my life the way they see fit. Anytime the government gets involved it one big snafu.
    "As a strong supporter of our 2nd Amendment rights, I believe tougher enforcement of our nation's existing gun laws must be done before any more laws are enacted and put on the books."
    Jeff Miller

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