Veteran arrested for having unloaded AR magazines in car in NY

This is a discussion on Veteran arrested for having unloaded AR magazines in car in NY within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Sheriff John T. Burns must not be very popular with the boys at Ft. Drum right now....

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Thread: Veteran arrested for having unloaded AR magazines in car in NY

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array NCSoxFan's Avatar
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    Sheriff John T. Burns must not be very popular with the boys at Ft. Drum right now.
    10thmtn likes this.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctr View Post
    I agree with most of what you have written, EXCEPT for one key point. The prosecution has the burden to prove the magazines are not pre-ban. The accused has no such burden. The basic principle is innocent until proven guilty. Unless our country has fallen so far that even this principle is no longer honored.
    Well, 1994 is almost 20 years ago. How old is this man? Was he 10 when pre-ban mags were legal?
    Was he 18 when pre-ban mags were legal? If he is younger than about 37, it would seem he had to
    acquire pre-1994 mags after it was legal to do so. OPFOR as usual hit the nail on the head. We all
    (including especially the originator of the news story) just assumed incorrectly that high caps were legal in
    NY before the new law; which is something OPFOR disputes, and he is almost always right about things like this.
    I think the man is in deep dooo. And especially so because they didn't just search his car for no reason at all.

    BTW-- his case and many like it are why we need uniform national gun laws instead of the crazy quilt we have now.
    It is just too easy for folks to mess up unless they spend a lot of time on gun forums like this and over at
    both the NRA site and the Handgunlaw.us site.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Well, 1994 is almost 20 years ago. How old is this man? Was he 10 when pre-ban mags were legal?
    Was he 18 when pre-ban mags were legal? If he is younger than about 37, it would seem he had to
    acquire pre-1994 mags after it was legal to do so. OPFOR as usual hit the nail on the head. We all
    (including especially the originator of the news story) just assumed incorrectly that high caps were legal in
    NY before the new law; which is something OPFOR disputes, and he is almost always right about things like this.
    I think the man is in deep dooo. And especially so because they didn't just search his car for no reason at all.

    BTW-- his case and many like it are why we need uniform national gun laws instead of the crazy quilt we have now.
    It is just too easy for folks to mess up unless they spend a lot of time on gun forums like this and over at
    both the NRA site and the Handgunlaw.us site.
    His age is irrelevant. His father could have provided the magazines or he could have purchased per-ban magazines used. Irrelevant. The burden of proof is with the state, not the accused.

  5. #34
    Senior Member Array Cokeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Well, 1994 is almost 20 years ago. How old is this man? Was he 10 when pre-ban mags were legal?
    Was he 18 when pre-ban mags were legal? If he is younger than about 37, it would seem he had to
    acquire pre-1994 mags after it was legal to do so. OPFOR as usual hit the nail on the head. We all
    (including especially the originator of the news story) just assumed incorrectly that high caps were legal in
    NY before the new law; which is something OPFOR disputes, and he is almost always right about things like this.
    I think the man is in deep dooo. And especially so because they didn't just search his car for no reason at all.

    BTW-- his case and many like it are why we need uniform national gun laws instead of the crazy quilt we have now.
    It is just too easy for folks to mess up unless they spend a lot of time on gun forums like this and over at
    both the NRA site and the Handgunlaw.us site.
    No. Someone would have the good idea to make the laws all like NY's.
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  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctr View Post
    His age is irrelevant. His father could have provided the magazines or he could have purchased per-ban magazines used. Irrelevant. The burden of proof is with the state, not the accused.
    Well you are right about where the burden is, but you also have to consider how jurors will look at it.
    The judge will shape the instructions, and I would guess any assertions that the got these from his
    dad would require some sort of evidence. I am not sure--- I don't know-- if it would or would not
    have been legal for him to obtain pre-ban magazines on the open market after the 1994
    ban went into effect. That one is past my pay grade. Maybe someone from NY knows and
    can post that here.

    Magazines as anything else do tend to reveal their age. Twenty year old stuff looks 20 years old;
    or perhaps a forensic metallurgist can tell.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cokeman View Post
    No. Someone would have the good idea to make the laws all like NY's.
    Doubtful, with most of The Senate being from low population rural states where politicians from
    both political sides tend to support gun owner rights.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  8. #37
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    All it takes is one bad law to ruin everything. The Pres is trying to pass an assault weapons ban, +10 round mag ban, and universal background checks that would lead to gun registration among many other things. These would be national gun laws.
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  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    BTW-- his case and many like it are why we need uniform national gun laws instead of the crazy quilt we have now.
    It is just too easy for folks to mess up unless they spend a lot of time on gun forums like this and over at
    both the NRA site and the Handgunlaw.us site.
    I disagree. To me the less control the federal government has the better off I am. It is incumbent upon each person to be aware of each state's laws, if they intend to carry a firearm or accessories into that state. If they aren't, it's nobody's fault but their own.

    An individual's voice is a lot louder at the state level than it is at the federal level. Also, as it stands now there are firearms friendly states and others that aren't. Any federal uniform laws would most likely lean towards the not so friendly side, again a very bad thing from my stand point. As it is now, you have a choice, as in you can chose to live in a gun friendly state if you want too. Federal laws would eliminate that option.
    ”Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security.”
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  10. #39
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    To get this thread back on topic...

    Since it is not a crime to be in possession of 30 round magazines that were obtained pre-ban, the arresting officer needs to have reasonable suspicion that the magazines were acquired post ban. Why did the officer make the arrest? What led the office to reasonably believe that the magazines were acquired post-ban? What knowledge does the officer who made the random traffic stop have about the history of the magazines and their current owner?
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  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1MoreGoodGuy View Post
    Since it is not a crime to be in possession of 30 round magazines that were obtained pre-ban, the arresting officer needs to have reasonable suspicion that the magazines were acquired post ban. Why did the officer make the arrest? What led the office to reasonably believe that the magazines were acquired post-ban? What knowledge does the officer who made the random traffic stop have about the history of the magazines and their current owner?
    I can only assume that the officer made the (seemingly reasonable, on its face) assumption that the magazines were less than 19 years old. I know almost all of my mags are "newer" than that. Without having any data (is there such data?) I would guess that most magazines in existence right now are "newer" than that.
    Hopyard likes this.
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  12. #41
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    Since he is in the US Army, could he have been traveling to a training class that required them to bring their own M16 magazines ??? If so and had proof, I would think that would exempt him from any law. God Bless

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I don't know-- if it would or would not
    have been legal for him to obtain pre-ban magazines on the open market after the 1994
    ban went into effect. That one is past my pay grade. Maybe someone from NY knows and
    can post that here.
    Perfectly legal if manufactured pre-ban.

    bosco
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  14. #43
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    You can't say most magazines will look 20 years old. For all we knew they were packaged and preserved and just recently opened. Maybe the case, maybe not, but in my mind, unless the magazine was manufactured by a company that didn't operate pre-ban, or the technology/material wasn't used in the pre-ban era, then how would you definitely prove beyond a shadow of doubt that they aren't pre-ban.
    1MoreGoodGuy likes this.

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    I don't understand this law at all. Why do they exempt magazines manufactured before 1994? Are they less dangerous than the ones manufactured after that date? (rhetorical question).

    Some of these laws seem deliberately vague and confusing. There are many "if's ands or but's". Our laws should be very clear.
    We have to stop electing idiots to Congress.

    As for Florida, I think the tide has already turned. Allen West, an honorable war hero, loses to a Liberal? Unbelieveable.
    1MoreGoodGuy likes this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanlouise View Post
    I don't understand this law at all. Why do they exempt magazines manufactured before 1994? Are they less dangerous than the ones manufactured after that date? (rhetorical question).

    Some of these laws seem deliberately vague and confusing. There are many "if's ands or but's". Our laws should be very clear.
    We have to stop electing idiots to Congress.

    As for Florida, I think the tide has already turned. Allen West, an honorable war hero, loses to a Liberal? Unbelieveable.
    Unbelievable is the operative word. I am not convinced that he lost the vote, just the "election".
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