Here's an interesting aspect to any ban - Page 2

Here's an interesting aspect to any ban

This is a discussion on Here's an interesting aspect to any ban within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by cayman_shen What a nauseating comment. Slavery aside, the war was about states rights vs the fed, people having their property taken and ...

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  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Here's an interesting aspect to any ban

    Quote Originally Posted by cayman_shen View Post
    What a nauseating comment.
    Slavery aside, the war was about states rights vs the fed, people having their property taken and yes this is how they saw it, and another group trying to legislate away their way of life. Awfully similar to now. I for one would rather go to war than submit to the demands currently being thrust upon us. I see the states and sheriff's declarations as a form of recognition that this is where it would go and a taking of sides.
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Any politician who has no qualms about trampling on the second amendment will have no problem disregarding the rest of them.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  3. #18
    Member Array cayman_shen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    Slavery aside, the war was about states rights vs the fed, people having their property taken and yes this is how they saw it, and another group trying to legislate away their way of life. Awfully similar to now. I for one would rather go to war than submit to the demands currently being thrust upon us. I see the states and sheriff's declarations as a form of recognition that this is where it would go and a taking of sides.
    I hope we can agree that people are NOT property, so in that case, the states were wrong. Comparing the two issues of owning a human being and owning a gun isn't a real solid argument.
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    VIP Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    There are already liberal law professors that are spewing this sentiment...and CBS is helping them do it. It is being picked up by others in the liberal movement of pluralism over individualism.

    WARNING: This may make you puke.

    Professor: Take our country back, from the Constitution - CBS News
    No offense, but the very title of the link tells me that my blood pressure can't handle me clicking it.
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    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RicT View Post

    "...critical concern about these anti-gun bills: the violence they would do to Fifth Amendment protections by depriving Americans of their property without due process."

    and

    "Mrs. Feinstein should know her bill violates Fifth Amendment tenets, since her 1994 ban specifically allowed resale of grandfathered firearms and magazines in part to avoid this very concern.
    When she was in school they only had time to get through the first amendment.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by cayman_shen View Post
    What a nauseating comment.
    If you disregard any kneejerk reponses, not really if you look at the principle involved, states rights vs federal control. Although the subject concerned may differ (guns vs slavery), the questino of who sets the rules for whom is the common principle.
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  7. #22
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cayman_shen View Post
    I hope we can agree that people are NOT property, so in that case, the states were wrong. Comparing the two issues of owning a human being and owning a gun isn't a real solid argument.
    I was not comparing owning a slave to owning a gun, at least from the modern perspective. Back 150 years ago and before, plantation owners considered the slaves to be their property. When the war between the states erupted, many people in the South saw their way of life, which was legitimate in their view, as being attacked. Today we recognize slavery as abhorrent and it should be unnecessary to continually point this out and prefix every mention of the subject with such a disclaimer.

    I suspect that this. or rather the zeitgeist (dominant school of thought that typifies and influences the culture) that requires people to do so is at least in part a reflection of why many impoverished, urban areas of blight are predominantly black. We've created a culture that enables people to claim things like, "because my great great great grandfather was a slave, society owes me.", rather than one that encourage progress. It has become a culture that feeds upon and nourishes itself. What it has done is perpetuate many of these people to a new form of slavery. Many of these places have become a God awful trap, from which there is little hope of escape and we wonder why violence is such a problem in these areas? To continue to speak of the subject of slavery in hushed tones, to pretend that it did not exist, to continue to apologize for it, and so forth do not recognize it as a wrong, but only give it more power.

    To answer the question of what to do about it, is to also answer the question of what to do about gun violence. Somehow we need to find ways to end the cycle of poverty. The Conservative view of this is to cut off the feed supply and hope that they become motivated. Unfortunately this won't work any more than the Iraqis rose up and formed a modern Democracy after the fall of Saddam. The Liberal answer is to create spending programs to educate and provide better living. This doesn't work either, nor are there enough resources available to do so. The problem is complex and I wish I had a solution, Ultimately they are going to have to find a way to break the cycle of poverty and violence and grow their local economies. Undoubtedly some form of help will be required.
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  8. #23
    Member Array cayman_shen's Avatar
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    If nothing else, comparing the states' feelings about owning slaves and modern gun ownership is a bad idea because history clearly showed that the slave owners were dead wrong and the govt did the right and moral thing in taking their property for the good of others (namely the slaves). I don't want anyone to say 'in two hundred years, you guys will look just as misguided as the slave owners.' It muddies the issue, and it's certainly not an argument I'll use when speaking with my anti friends.

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    Here's an interesting aspect to any ban

    The FOURTH AMENDMENT protects us from unlawful Search & Seizure. The FIFTH is self incrimination.


    Lets Be Careful Out There!
    Ron
    "Lets Be Careful Out There!"

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