Physicians and Guns Part II: A Hypothetical Situation

This is a discussion on Physicians and Guns Part II: A Hypothetical Situation within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I refuse to talk guns to a doc. Anyway, I just think its gonna do way more harm than good. People who need help, whether ...

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  1. #61
    Member Array mg27's Avatar
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    I refuse to talk guns to a doc. Anyway, I just think its gonna do way more harm than good. People who need help, whether it be Drugs or alcohol abuse, Anxiety, depression, ptsd ect.. Are gonna avoid the doctors or rehabs making the situation worse.

    Id rather see a drunk or drug addict get the help he needs and keep his firearm than avoid the help and still have his firearm.
    This is gonna backfire, and its soo non American. Problem is What is considered high risk? Where is the line drawn. Are they gonna use this to take firearms from people who have never even been in a fist fight because they have some depression here and there or anxiety here and there?

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  3. #62
    Senior Member Array DoctorBob's Avatar
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    Get real

    let's get real. Doctors are NOT going to report gun ownership to the government.
    There are a whole list of questions to ask during an initial visit or annual exam; e.g. do you wear seat belts, get exercise, want to quit smoking, etc. Studies show that these very simple and very inexpensive questions can lead to a small, non-zero effect on outcomes for some patients. The net benefit, while small, is easily, quickly and inexpensively achieved by bringing up the topic. The pediatric assoc. has suggested that asking parents if they have guns (47% of households) and suggesting that they be sure to keep them safely stored and out of reach of children might save an occasional life or limb. Even if the effect applied to only one in 100000 encounters, it would be worth it. Insisting on making a mountain out of what is hardly a molehill smacks of demagoguery or worse.

    And, our health care system is "broken." We pay more per capita and get less for our $ than any OECD country and we rank behind Costa Rica (36th) in the world in WHO rankings. The inability of huge segments of our population to access health care is embarassing and disgusting in the 21st century. Obama Care addresses that issue directly.

    The politicization of the FDA, the effect of big Pharma in raising the cost and decreasing the efficiency of the health care system is approcahing the status of legend. The outright mendacity associated with the marketing of dangerous and useless medications is shameful.

    the inability or unwillingness of some physicians to update their practice with the appropriate use of screening exams and treatment methods is both shameful and dangerous. Check out the March 2013 issue of Consumer Reports regarding cancer screening for an example.

    And, yes, I'm a practicing physician, board certified and licensed in two states.
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  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    let's get real. Doctors are NOT going to report gun ownership to the government.
    There are a whole list of questions to ask during an initial visit or annual exam; e.g. do you wear seat belts, get exercise, want to quit smoking, etc. Studies show that these very simple and very inexpensive questions can lead to a small, non-zero effect on outcomes for some patients. The net benefit, while small, is easily, quickly and inexpensively achieved by bringing up the topic. The pediatric assoc. has suggested that asking parents if they have guns (47% of households) and suggesting that they be sure to keep them safely stored and out of reach of children might save an occasional life or limb. Even if the effect applied to only one in 100000 encounters, it would be worth it. Insisting on making a mountain out of what is hardly a molehill smacks of demagoguery or worse.

    And, our health care system is "broken." We pay more per capita and get less for our $ than any OECD country and we rank behind Costa Rica (36th) in the world in WHO rankings. The inability of huge segments of our population to access health care is embarassing and disgusting in the 21st century. Obama Care addresses that issue directly.

    The politicization of the FDA, the effect of big Pharma in raising the cost and decreasing the efficiency of the health care system is approcahing the status of legend. The outright mendacity associated with the marketing of dangerous and useless medications is shameful.

    the inability or unwillingness of some physicians to update their practice with the appropriate use of screening exams and treatment methods is both shameful and dangerous. Check out the March 2013 issue of Consumer Reports regarding cancer screening for an example.

    And, yes, I'm a practicing physician, board certified and licensed in two states.
    I wonder why, if OUR Healthcare system is 36th in the world, people come from other countries to be treated?
    If you're going to believe the WHO then I suppose you also believe the UN is a legitimate organization now days.

    Enjoy your practice under Obamacare while you can, cause it won't last long.

    Our Healthcare system has some problems but they could have been addressed without destroying the whole thing and substituting Socialized medicine.

    However, as an Obama supporter I doubt if you're interested in the truth.
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  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanlouise View Post
    I wonder why, if OUR Healthcare system is 36th in the world, people come from other countries to be treated?
    If you're going to believe the WHO then I suppose you also believe the UN is a legitimate organization now days.

    Enjoy your practice under Obamacare while you can, cause it won't last long.

    Our Healthcare system has some problems but they could have been addressed without destroying the whole thing and substituting Socialized medicine.

    However, as an Obama supporter I doubt if you're interested in the truth.
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  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    And, yes, I'm a practicing physician, board certified and licensed in two states.
    Please allow me to make this perfectly clear. I have ZERO firearms. None, nada, never, and won't.

    Now you can check that box in the electronic medical record that you are going to be required to keep under Meaningful Use and HiTech in order to get PAID by Big Daddy so he can run data mining queries on his new database.
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    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    The inability of huge segments of our population to access health care is embarassing and disgusting in the 21st century.
    I've been working in numerous hospitals in 5 states for the last 20 years. Of over 40,000 ER visits we saw last year we had HUGE segments of our population freely accessing healthcare in our ER and doing it for FREELY dollars. Hundreds of millions in charity care and bad debt per year.

    Obamacare simply re-distributes (sound familiar) the dollars being spent in Medicare and other Federally funded healthcare plans to cover uninsured patients also. No new money in the kitty, just divided up between more people. Add that many more people seeking healthcare with no more money and the costs to Doctors and Hospitals goes through the roof with no additional payment. The only qualifying factor in this is they are already getting free care in the ERs across America now, so to some extent the financial impact of this has already been baked into those existing cost structures. How much that will increase is anyone's guess.

    The bottom line is Obamacare is healthPAYMENT reform, not actual healthCARE reform.
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    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    let's get real. Doctors are NOT going to report gun ownership to the government.
    You left out the word "YET." If ObamaCare mandates that they do so, then they will. Are you going to give up the career you've worked so hard to enter for the sake of "protecting" someone who affirms that they have guns? I somehow doubt it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    There are a whole list of questions to ask during an initial visit or annual exam; e.g. do you wear seat belts, get exercise, want to quit smoking, etc. Studies show that these very simple and very inexpensive questions can lead to a small, non-zero effect on outcomes for some patients. The net benefit, while small, is easily, quickly and inexpensively achieved by bringing up the topic. The pediatric assoc. has suggested that asking parents if they have guns (47% of households) and suggesting that they be sure to keep them safely stored and out of reach of children might save an occasional life or limb. Even if the effect applied to only one in 100000 encounters, it would be worth it. Insisting on making a mountain out of what is hardly a molehill smacks of demagoguery or worse.
    But here's what you need to understand. There's a huge difference between a doctor casually asking this question NOW simply because he's interested in the safety of children or whatever, as opposed to being required to ask this question because the federal government has ordered him to. That's what everyone is afraid of and understandably so.


    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    And, our health care system is "broken." We pay more per capita and get less for our $ than any OECD country and we rank behind Costa Rica (36th) in the world in WHO rankings. The inability of huge segments of our population to access health care is embarassing and disgusting in the 21st century. Obama Care addresses that issue directly.
    Yeah, and it's cheap, too. What's the estimated cost per American household? $20,000.00, I believe? I heard a great quote once: "If you think something is expensive now, just wait until it's 'free.'"

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    The politicization of the FDA, the effect of big Pharma in raising the cost and decreasing the efficiency of the health care system is approcahing the status of legend. The outright mendacity associated with the marketing of dangerous and useless medications is shameful.

    the inability or unwillingness of some physicians to update their practice with the appropriate use of screening exams and treatment methods is both shameful and dangerous. Check out the March 2013 issue of Consumer Reports regarding cancer screening for an example.
    Yes, Big Pharma is hurting us. But if you think that's bad, wait until Our Hero Obama steps in to "help."

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    And, yes, I'm a practicing physician, board certified and licensed in two states.
    Two states, huh? Drunk and Sober?

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  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    let's get real. Doctors are NOT going to report gun ownership to the government.
    There are a whole list of questions to ask during an initial visit or annual exam; e.g. do you wear seat belts, get exercise, want to quit smoking, etc. Studies show that these very simple and very inexpensive questions can lead to a small, non-zero effect on outcomes for some patients. The net benefit, while small, is easily, quickly and inexpensively achieved by bringing up the topic. The pediatric assoc. has suggested that asking parents if they have guns (47% of households) and suggesting that they be sure to keep them safely stored and out of reach of children might save an occasional life or limb. Even if the effect applied to only one in 100000 encounters, it would be worth it. Insisting on making a mountain out of what is hardly a molehill smacks of demagoguery or worse.

    And, our health care system is "broken." We pay more per capita and get less for our $ than any OECD country and we rank behind Costa Rica (36th) in the world in WHO rankings. The inability of huge segments of our population to access health care is embarassing and disgusting in the 21st century. Obama Care addresses that issue directly.

    The politicization of the FDA, the effect of big Pharma in raising the cost and decreasing the efficiency of the health care system is approcahing the status of legend. The outright mendacity associated with the marketing of dangerous and useless medications is shameful.

    the inability or unwillingness of some physicians to update their practice with the appropriate use of screening exams and treatment methods is both shameful and dangerous. Check out the March 2013 issue of Consumer Reports regarding cancer screening for an example.

    And, yes, I'm a practicing physician, board certified and licensed in two states.
    I got it now! It's to save the children and if I don't support it then I must want the children to die.

    So asking non patients (the parents) questions about gun ownership and gun storage techniques is for the good of your patient (child).

    Likewise, asking your patient (the parents) questions about gun ownership and gun storage techniques is for the good of someone who is not your patient (the child).

    If only one child were saved it would be worth it, right? Using that logic we should stop driving cars because children die in car accidents...after all, if it saves just one child it is worth it.
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  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    let's get real. Doctors are NOT going to report gun ownership to the government...
    True. The doctors are just going to have their assistants enter the information into the database...if someone or some entity accesses the database after that, it's not the doctors reporting to the government.
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  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by knowltk View Post
    I heard about a guy who's doctor decided was suicidal. The doctor informed the police who showed up on his doorstep, took all of his guns, and then took him to some sort of mental facility. The kept him for 2 or 3 days to evaluate him. They decided he was Ok. However, he now has a mental health check mark on his record, so he can't buy any new guns (the police kept the ones they took).

    The reason for me telling this story is that my wife and I were talking about it this morning and decided that if a doctor did this here where we live in Idaho, that the story would spread like wild-fire and the doctor would find himself with no patients.
    Or the guy kills himself, physician gets sued, loses his/her license, and end up with no patients.

  12. #71
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    Doc: "You need to stop drinking, stop smoking, stop eating red meat, stop eating fried food, stop eating sugar, and stop chasing wild women."

    BugDude: "Will that make me live longer?"

    Doc: "No, but it will sure make it seem like it."
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
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    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  13. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    Clean bill of health thank you!

    I know the risks, I know the effects and I ain't puttin' up with any damned state nanny!
    If you continue to smoke, then you clearly don't fully understand the effects of a tobacco use.

  14. #73
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    Sure he does. He simply lives in a country where he is free to make that decision for himself....for now...
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    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
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    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  15. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by oBMTo View Post
    If you continue to smoke, then you clearly don't fully understand the effects of a tobacco use.
    Many meddling minions in our midst... I suppose gun ownership increases the chance that one might be murdered, eh?

  16. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1MoreGoodGuy View Post
    Re: "it's not a lecture" That's why I wrote "...lecture me on firearms ownership or even make a statement to me on..."

    It's not your place as my physician to lecture me or even make one single statement to me about safe storage and use of firearms, obeying laws, telling me to "keep them out of reach of children and unauthorized persons". None of that has anything to do with my medical treatment. How would owning a gun vs. not owning a gun alter your treatment of your patient?

    Please explain how your "health safety message" relates to the health of the patient you are making the statement too?

    And again I'll ask, what business is it of yours?

    So far, everyone is seemingly advocating lying to or berating the inquiring physician.

    I'm playing devil's advocate here but if asking patients about firearms becomes a part of a physician's duty as mandated by the government, then it is his business. He's just doing his job if he has to ask those questions.

    You wouldn't continue to patronize a restaurant wherein the hostess was required to ask you if you are carrying. If you don't like what the doctor asks or says to you, then find a new doctor or stop going to one altogether. The second option would become reasonable if it becomes federally mandated for physicians to ask about firearms and record your answers into a database. I guess it comes down to two things: how much do you value your privacy and do you think you need to participate in the healthcare system by getting annual check-ups and other non-emergency services?

    Do you think that eschewing seeing a doctor or any healthcare professional would compromise your health if that person is required to ask if you own guns?

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