The Federalist Papers or Tin Foil Hats

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Thread: The Federalist Papers or Tin Foil Hats

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array SigPapa226's Avatar
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    The Federalist Papers or Tin Foil Hats

    A number of people have pooh-poohed some of the forum articles as “Tin Foil Hat People” writing them, but the same was probably said about our founding fathers when they proposed resistance to a tyrannical government. Our founding fathers were mostly Englishmen resisting against their own English government. The tyranny did not begin in one fell swoop, but built over time. Creeping tyranny is insidious because it is not recognized until late in the game.

    People here write about defending their Second Amendment Rights. They talk about Stalin, Mao, the Khymer Rouge, the Weimar Republic and vow “that will not happen here”. Did the people in those times & places ever think that would happen to them? The Weimar Republic had financial problems & a politician said he could fix it. Did Hitler say he was going to murder millions of people when he started out? … NO. But to further his goals he needed someone/some group to demonize. Any parallels to today? Many Germans refused to believe what was going on, and many of the Allied powers knew little about the Holocaust (or the extent of it) until Germany was taken during the war. The atrocities were done by the Peoples “Homeland Security” not an outside force.

    People argue that we are different, it can’t happen here. Yet it has.

    • Wounded Knee – Gun control/confiscation & then slaughter.
    • Post Civil War gun control to keep Blacks disarmed resulting in murder & continued suppression
    of rights.
    • The US Army assault on the Bonus Army encampments... Bonus Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/INDENT]

    • Japanese Americans interred during WW11. No slaughter, but violated their rights &
    imprisonment.
    • Some would say Waco & Ruby Ridge were Government violations of people’s rights and murder
    • Gun confiscation after Katrina.
    • Gun confiscations in DC (Read Gestapo raids Vet's home in DC)

    People ask why the sudden assault on the Second Amendment? … Why do we have such a massive debt that the administration does not want to correct? …Why is there such a push to “distribute the wealth”? … Why can’t we secure our borders? ...Why do we have such a log jam in government, no one will cooperate & nothing gets done? ...Why must we wait for Congress when things need to be “fixed” now, why can’t Obama wait for Congress to act?

    Carl Marx talked about the Bourgeoisie, Obama talks about the 1 percent, and the millionaires & billionaires, what is the difference? Both groups are demonized to further the politician’s goals. Marx spoke about the Proletariat, Obama talks about the Middle Class and the Unemployed, & how they are being repressed by the 1 percent, and the need to “redistribute the wealth”. Sounds like the Classic Marxist/Leninist approach with modern terms.

    Some readers will believe everything they read here (and other places) without question. They are gullible & can be misled. They are the sheeple that blow with the wind.

    Those that yell “Tin Foil Hats” may be right. On the other hand maybe they do not see beyond what their party tells them to believe, maybe they are Trolls on this site (Yes we do have Trolls – all sites, from either side, have trolls), or maybe they truly do not believe that it could happen here. They will dismiss & ridicule the articles or discussions rather than debate them or consider the possibilities.

    The rest of the readers might take a middle ground. They will take what they read with a “grain of Salt” and think about it. Yes, some things are happening, but they will decide & debate whether some, or all, of what is discussed is true and what it portends, if anything. Are the strange incidents a coincidence or coordinated activities? They want to trust, but verify. They want to think about it without jumping to conclusions either way. These are the patriots that were our forefathers; these are the patriots of today that are trying to come to grips with today’s environment.
    Thompsonian likes this.
    Ten Bears: It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array SigPapa226's Avatar
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    Let’s talk about current times.

    Do you think that Newtown caused a sudden & spontaneous outpouring of support for Gun Control? Why didn’t the Gabby Giffords shooting do that? Why didn’t the Aurora shooting do that? Was it because they were before the election, and Obama denied he was interested in Gun Control? Amazing how the support was instantaneous on the very day Newtown happened. Amazing that for 20 years the Washington Post probably only had an article on guns less than a couple times a year and now there have been dozens & dozens since Newtown, the same with other news outlets. Do you think that the media is exploiting this event to support Obama’s position on Gun Control? Does Obama just want us all to “be safe”, or are there longer range motives to disarming the citizens?

    Obama is back on the campaign trail for Gun Control in Minnesota this week.

    Bloomberg for years has funded positions in City & town government to coordinate gun control efforts on “behalf of the people”.

    Rahm Emanuel wants “more gun control” even though Chicago has the strictest & most draconian gun laws in the country (although New York is catching up).

    What was Obama talking about when he told the Brady people he was working on something “under the radar”? …Was this Fast & Furious?

    Why is Fast & Furious being covered up? Was it to drum-up support for gun control, but had its cover blown too early? Why did Obama, Hillary, and Janet Napolitano all talk about the “river of guns” before Fast & Furious was blown & then they became quiet? Where they all in on Fast & Furious? Was there a coordinated plan for Gun Control, just waiting for the right trigger?

    Why can’t we find out what happened in Benghazi? Who gave the order to “stand down”? Why have we not heard from the survivors? Was the CIA arming the Rebels or just the Muslim Brotherhood.

    Obama has made unconstitutional appointments without the advise & consent of the congress; adjudicated unconstitutional.

    Unconstitutional selective enforcement of law, i.e. immigration “dream act”, defense of marriage, etc.

    Avowed Communists as advisers, as well as Maoists and socialist. PS – Obama’s parents were Communists, his childhood mentor in Hawaii was a communist and he spent 20+ years in a church of Black Liberation Theology (marxism).

    Bills being proposed in Congress to eliminate the 22 Amendment, to allow “unlimited terms” for Obama.

    Current attempts to destroy the Republican Party, thereby effectively instituting one party rule. We had that in 2008 & 2009 and got Obamacare (current estim. $20K/yer per family) that we are required to buy. With one party rule he could “get a lot done” (things that only the “Dear Leader” can get done).

    List-servers discovered a year or so ago where the “news” was being coordinated & the “messaging” corrected for many in the media (propaganda efforts). The list-server was dismantled then. Do you believe there is no coordination now? I do not.

    Current “news commentators” describing Obama as being the Savior & depicted as the “Second Christ”. You think the media is not in the bag?

    Past & current attempts by this Whitehouse to discredit and/or destroy Fox News because they are a dissenting voice. Why are they the only dissenting major news network? Suppression of First Amendment?

    News organizations actively discussing the elimination of the Constitution as outdated & irrelevant. A SCOTUS judge advocating S. Africa’s constitution as better than ours. Attempts to define the constitution as a living document that has to “change with the times”. Attempts to redefine the Second Amendment.

    DHS issuing alerts that say retired Military & vets are high risks of being terrorist due to their military training.

    US Army field manuals adding sections on suppressing Civil Disturbances. Lots of Urban warfare overseas, but is that guerrilla warfare or civil disturbance? Why does the military need to train for Civil Disturbances when they are prohibited by law (Posse Comitatus Act) from being used as a police force against our citizens unless martial law is declared by the President & approved by Congress.

    Recent National Guard exercises in cities/towns raise questions. The Guard can be used within a state if called up by the Governor to provide policing duties. PS – Bloomberg denied National Guard Support in NY in the Sandy aftermath since he did not want anyone armed except his police. Why did he deny support? … Because it was not fully under his control?

    We have heard hundreds (dozens per year) of examples of government fraud, waste & abuse, and yet we are suppose to believe that DHS is simple a model of efficiency in their procurement of millions of rounds of ammunition and thousands of “Self Defense Weapons” (full auto AR-15s).

    Jesse Jackson just called for DHS to police the streets of Chicago. If done, would this not give DHS an excuse, and a training ground, to begin a “civilian militia rivaling the DOD” that Obama has spoken about? Nucleus for a “Civilian National Security Force (Obama Militia)”?

    Recent news article – DOJ issued Secret authority to keep files on citizens without prior criminal records or probable cause, just in case that in the future these citizens are suspected to be terrorist at some later date.

    Recent laws on cyber security giving the president the authority to “shut down the Internet”. What if your only news is from MSNBC? … Would that be good?

    Ignoring the law - Republican Senators question whether Treasury secretary nominee Jack Lew violated a federal law by declining to respond to dire warnings from the group that oversees Medicare — in the latest example of one of Obama's Cabinet picks facing pressure from Congress. Ignoring inconvenient Laws to support the administration.

    Ignoring the law – How about Kathleen Sibelius ignoring the Hatch Act to campaign for Obama? She remained in office although some investigations ongoing about an associated DNC cover-up.

    Ignoring the law – DOJ refuses to prosecute Black Panthers for Voting Place threats, even when captured on video. Could they be an Alternate nucleus for a “Civilian National Security Force (Obama Militia)”?

    Ignoring the law – The Democratically Controlled Senate refusing to issue a budget for four years so Obama could continue under the first year’s budget with massive stimulation, etc. as a continuing resolution.

    Refusal of the Administration to even admit we have a spending problem vs. trying to get the millionaires & billionaires to pay their fair share. Is he trying to crash the economy to rebuild it as a Socialist Utopia vs. a Free Market Society?

    Government takeover of the Banks & Car Companies during the “fiscal crisis” is Fascism (the government control of private industry). Note: Fascism was supported in this country by some progressives as a way to correct the evils of big business that “caused the Great Depression” rather than fully transitioning (at that time) to socialism/communism, (it would be a stepping stone).

    Why are 5 & 6 year olds being suspended from school for using their fingers as a gun or a piece of paper as a gun? Is this brainwashing starting in Kindergarten? If you think, talk, play with a gun you are a bad, bad person. Holder said we have to brainwash the people to change the culture and to make them believe guns are bad.

    The Obama election team used massive databases to micro-target groups to develop support for Obama. He is now using that “machine” to go after gun control. If he is successful there, where will his “machine” be used next?

    These are a few examples of past & current anomalies. Are they all true or nonsense?


    Are these just unrelated individual events or is there a greater strategy? We have seen other strategies such as: no stated gun control in the first term, massive push in the second term; no support for gays pre-first election, big push to gain support for second term; no support (even sabotaged efforts) to resolve illegal immigration, and pandered to immigrants for support for second term; “I will reach across the aisle” before the First term, trying to destroy the opposition in the second term; massive spending in the First Term, no inclination to slow down (or balance the budget) in the Second Term – where is that going? …etc, etc, etc.

    Are you a “Tin Foil Hatter”, a “Sheeple” or a thinker who wonders about all of this?

    Not the Federalist Papers, but the musings of someone who is watching & wondering.

    Which are you?
    Ten Bears: It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men.

  4. #3
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    War does not determine who is right...it determines who is left. And he who is left gets to write the history books. If our founding fathers had lost the revolutionary war, history would have remembered them all as treasonous traitors. Instead, they are revolutionary heros. It's all about perspective.
    Thompsonian likes this.
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    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigPapa226 View Post
    A number of people have pooh-poohed some of the forum articles as “Tin Foil Hat People” writing them, but the same was probably said about our founding fathers when they proposed resistance to a tyrannical government. Our founding fathers were mostly Englishmen resisting against their own English government. The tyranny did not begin in one fell swoop, but built over time. Creeping tyranny is insidious because it is not recognized until late in the game.

    People here write about defending their Second Amendment Rights. They talk about Stalin, Mao, the Khymer Rouge, the Weimar Republic and vow “that will not happen here”. Did the people in those times & places ever think that would happen to them? The Weimar Republic had financial problems & a politician said he could fix it. Did Hitler say he was going to murder millions of people when he started out? … NO. But to further his goals he needed someone/some group to demonize. Any parallels to today? Many Germans refused to believe what was going on, and many of the Allied powers knew little about the Holocaust (or the extent of it) until Germany was taken during the war. The atrocities were done by the Peoples “Homeland Security” not an outside force.

    People argue that we are different, it can’t happen here. Yet it has.

    • Wounded Knee – Gun control/confiscation & then slaughter.
    • Post Civil War gun control to keep Blacks disarmed resulting in murder & continued suppression
    of rights.
    • Japanese Americans interred during WW11. No slaughter, but violated their rights &
    imprisonment.
    • Some would say Waco & Ruby Ridge were Government violations of people’s rights and murder
    • Gun confiscation after Katrina.
    • Gun confiscations in DC (Read Gestapo raids Vet's home in DC)
    You for got one of the biggest
    The US Army assault on the Bonus Army encampments...
    Bonus Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array SigPapa226's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    You for got one of the biggest
    The US Army assault on the Bonus Army encampments...
    Bonus Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    You are right & I probably missed more. I am not a History major, only a concerned citizen.

    Thanks for adding that one. I will edit and add it to the post.
    Thompsonian likes this.
    Ten Bears: It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men.

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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigPapa226 View Post
    We have seen other strategies such as: no stated gun control in the first term, massive push in the second term; no support for gays pre-first election, big push to gain support for second term; no support (even sabotaged efforts) to resolve illegal immigration, and pandered to immigrants for support for second term; “I will reach across the aisle” before the First term, trying to destroy the opposition in the second term; massive spending in the First Term, no inclination to slow down (or balance the budget) in the Second Term – where is that going? …etc, etc, etc.
    This part is just Standard Operating Procedure in politics. We all pretty much saw this coming. Once you get your second term in hand and don't have to worry about re-election, you have nothing left to lose.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

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    General Curtis LeMay remarked that, after firebombing Japanese cities to the gropund, the only reason he wasn't tried as a war criminal was that we won. War is hell. To win you must destroy the enemy. It seems that concept has been lost.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
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  10. #9
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    Great write up, thank you for your time and energy. It sure sets a man to thinkin' even harder about these things when you throw in all of these "coincidences".
    “A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” --George Washington

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    I like to think of myself as a person that takes what he hears with a grain of salt. Uses critical thinking to weigh the information and who it is coming from and their reputation for telling the truth, exagerating the truth, omitting facts to support their conclusion, and what sources they use and what categories they fall under.

    Now, as far as the OP I will not dispute any of his statements but would like to add this: a list can be made of any administration and make it sound as bad or worse as what we currently have.
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  12. #11
    Senior Member Array SigPapa226's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I like to think of myself as a person that takes what he hears with a grain of salt. Uses critical thinking to weigh the information and who it is coming from and their reputation for telling the truth, exagerating the truth, omitting facts to support their conclusion, and what sources they use and what categories they fall under.

    Now, as far as the OP I will not dispute any of his statements but would like to add this: a list can be made of any administration and make it sound as bad or worse as what we currently have.
    You are right.
    There have been a lot of bad administrations and list can be made to make any of them look good or bad. But in my years (& I am a Senior) I have never seen a more Socialistic administration or a greater assault on my Second Amendment Rights.
    Ten Bears: It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men.

  13. #12
    Distinguished Member Array BurgerBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigPapa226 View Post
    You are right.
    There have been a lot of bad administrations and list can be made to make any of them look good or bad. But in my years (& I am a Senior) I have never seen a more Socialistic administration or a greater assault on my Second Amendment Rights.
    Same for me.
    Vietnam Veteran - 1966-1970 USASA
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  14. #13
    Senior Member Array SigPapa226's Avatar
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    I forgot about Obama killing American Citizens without a Court Order or adjudication.

    EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans

    EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans - Open Channel
    Thompsonian likes this.
    Ten Bears: It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men.

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    The big mistake is... that a lot of people think our founding fathers sat down and thought this stuff all up. Since the mid-1600's .... people started preaching these ideas, and were called crazy to treasonist... and put in prison. George Fox , founded the Quaker Religion, is one of them. I have 6 family lines of ancestors that came to America between 1665 - 1687....... and have seen many letters, writings, etc. and even books referring to them in the books..... where these things were all being argued and promoted.
    So, if you think a good 130 yrs later ..... about 1640's to 1770's.... was a flash in the pan idea...... then you are welcome too.

    But, the ideas of due process, Govt cannot seize property, personal property rights, laws apply to citizens equally and equal application of the law, the 1st-2nd-5th amendment concepts, the 4th amendment concepts...... then start reading things going from about 1640 - 1660 and on in England.... and then in Amercia about 1680-1700 and on.

    It's all there. The thing was.... that the King's ... for 100 + years kept putting anyone into prison or prison islands ..... who spoke or tried to promote them. So, when all of our "ancestors" ... said "it's time" ...... that's where the idea was pushed into reality. They either fight for them .. literally... or not. When the King and Bristish Army wanted to confiscate powder and guns, then .... it became more of a now or never proposition. They knew without guns, they had no chance... and one reason I personally think the 2nd Amendment was important to them later.
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