Drunk and Armed: On Duty with the Ohio State Highway Patrol
This is a discussion on Drunk and Armed: On Duty with the Ohio State Highway Patrol within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; The FOP's stance is that "in scope of their duties" always applies, because they are on duty 24/7. If this phrase does not apply, then ...
October 30th, 2006 09:09 AM
The FOP's stance is that "in scope of their duties" always applies, because they are on duty 24/7. If this phrase does not apply, then why would there be an an exception added to the law if it didn't do anything? The only way for the exception to apply would be for an officer to be drunk. In your opinion, what does the exception mean?
If this "loophole" was meaningless, then why is law enforcement insisting that it cannot be removed? Why would the police unions believe that it is very important and would try to crush ANY bill that tries to remove it?.
In Ohio, the specific controls the general. If they are in a car, 2923.16 controls, not 2923.15.
Sorry about the delay, I don't get tpo check forums everyday...especially over the weekend.
October 30th, 2006 09:09 AM
October 30th, 2006 11:39 AM
I'm not sure if the FOP is making that argument or not, I haven't looked into it, yet. If they are, they are wrong. 2923.16 does not supersede 2923.15, or 4511.19 or any other law for that matter.
Because the FOP takes a stance on something, does not make it law. FOP is just a labor union, and they are trying to defend this trooper. That is their sole purpose.
In the scope of their duties has a simple meaning. If the officer is acting within his duties, in a lawful manner. If I am doing my grocery shopping, that is not within the scope of my duties, on the clock or not. If I'm at the store and something goes down and I make an arrest, I have acted within the scope of my duties. If I'm in Ohio and a felony happens in my presence, it is my duty to make an arrest. All Actions must be within the policy and procedures of that agency. I doubt being drunk behind the wheel of a OSP cruiser fits within OSP's policies.
If I am working and rob a bank, even though I'm on duty, that is not within the scope of my duty. Same as if I go sit in a bar and drink all day while on duty. I can hardly make the case that those actions are within the scope of my duty.
Just one example; I help out from time to time with a ADAP for new officers. Part of the class is we have some people drink as part of the class. The students then give field sobriety tests to determine who has been drinking. If I am at a .10, I may not carry my gun, but I can have it in the trunk and transport it home with a sober driver. The average Joe cannot do this.
The "loophole" exists in part because there are rare cases when a officer is intoxicated within the scope of his duties. He may not carry a firearm when intox., but he may transport. He cannot drive the vehicle. The "loophole" also is there because this law does deal with the transport of firearms. A Leo can have a firearm hidden on his person or in the car while acting within the scope his duties, a CCW holder or regular Joe cannot.
Again 2923.16 specifically addresses the TRANSPORTATION of firearms, 2923.15 deals with the CARRY AND USE OF firearms while intoxicated. A big difference. Two different laws for different reasons.
To drive my point even more, on duty in a police car a officer who is driving drunk is guilty of OMVI (4511.19) That is what got the whole debate going in the first place. :)
Last edited by SIXTO; October 30th, 2006 at 12:59 PM.
November 1st, 2006 12:12 AM
Originally Posted by SIXTO
Looks like Gerard Valentino is more of an ___ than I thought. Can you say foot in mouth?
For those who won't read the article, it is the results of the final tests. Trooper Risner was not drunk.
I have lost respect for BFA. What a irresponsible article not only to write, but post on a public forum, trying to pass it on as fact. Further more, trying to present themselves as knowledgeable on Ohio law. People may be looking at a "credible" source for legal information, and these clowns give out horrible advice. What a sorry organization.
I am sorry for the rant, but this is just crazy. And they wonder why the general public perception of the gun industry is a bunch of sloppy uneducated hillbilly's.
I bet no one from that Buckeye Firearms Association will even reply to this thread to defend the garbage that article spewed- or fall on the sword and apologize.
Last edited by SIXTO; November 1st, 2006 at 12:40 AM.
November 3rd, 2006 09:14 PM
I sent them a email, and they posted a cheesy editors note on their website. I left a comment on the article with a link to this thread, they removed it. No one can defend the article, yet they leave it one their website. Gutless.
My thoughts on BFA are set in stone.
Last edited by SIXTO; November 5th, 2006 at 02:07 PM.
November 5th, 2006 02:11 PM
Still no reply from BFA or the author himself. I left them a email address. Spineless characters. Its ashame, they could have a good thing going, but I refuse to support a group who cannot answer questions, and continues to spout incorrect information even when proven wrong. That makes them no different than our liberal "friends".
November 5th, 2006 03:10 PM
So, one test done by the OHP within 5hrs indicates 0% BAC, another test done by the coroner at 60hrs indicates 0.08% BAC, and another test by the FAA indicates impossibility of ingestion of alcohol within 16hrs prior to the crash. Does anyone know the science of the FAA test that can determine this?
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November 5th, 2006 04:09 PM
I can't explain in very scientific terms, but I can give the basics... here we go;
Following the crash a blood draw was done upon Trooper Risner's body that was analyzed. It showed that it was .00 BAC. This draw was from the carotid artery. This draw is the standard practice in fatal accidents, including those where fire was involved. A body in decomposition will produce ethanol synthesis. This is especially true with burn victims.
Funeral was had, and they brought his body back to the funeral home. Sometime between his death and the funeral, it was decided that an autopsy should be performed. AFTER the funeral, the autopsy was performed.
By the time the autopsy was performed, almost 60 hours had passed and the body had been exposed to the effects of decomposition accelerated by the fire and the major trauma to vital large organs. These factors created a false positive for alcohol during the autopsy.
The coroner tests showed a .08, drunk in Ohio. Who was the meat head that ran with this finding? I don't know, but they should not be in the medical field or news industry.
What the exact tests are that the FAA does, I don't know. I am researching that now. I would have to assume that its some sort of deep tissue test or fluid tests. This sort of thing FAA investigators are experts at, since just about all of their cases involve fire. www.atsb.gov has some good info, but I don't hve time to read through it all today.
And its still illegal for a LEO to drive intoxicated, or carry a weapon intoxicated.
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