Why we're ultimately going to lose our gun rights

This is a discussion on Why we're ultimately going to lose our gun rights within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Most of you here see this as the 'Dems" against the "Repubs"... "Libs" against "conservatives". It's not. It's 'gun people' against 'anti-gun people' FROM BOTH ...

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  1. #31
    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    Most of you here see this as the 'Dems" against the "Repubs"... "Libs" against "conservatives". It's not. It's 'gun people' against 'anti-gun people' FROM BOTH SIDES of the political fence.

    I've taken the effort to ask many groups of 'conservatives' at my golf club what they think of the restrictions on assault weapons and magazine capacity. These guys are very right wing and HATE Obama. However, they almost all agree that there is NO NEED to own an assault rifle and 10 round limit magazines should be enforced. "They have no place in society." " Only the military should have them" is the average reply. They also don't see any infringement to the 2nd amendment as you can still own hunting rifles and shotguns for self defense.

    I don't see this war on guns coming from just the 'liberal' side. It's coming from both sides.
    Jeanlouise, noway2 and Doghandler like this.
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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBSR View Post
    THE SKY IS FALLLING!!! WE'RE LOSING OUR GUN RIGHTS, I JUST KNOW IT!! THS SKY IS FALLING!!!

    Uh, no it isn't, and no we are not. You can buy into that defeatist negative thinking all you want, but I'll choose not to. The NRA and a large group of elected officials (to include law enforcement officials), and military folks are standing up and speaking for our rights. These voices are not going unheeded. Maybe by the mainstream media, but that doesn't really matter.

    As long as you keep writing your letters, sending your emails, your elected ones will know that they mess with us, at their own peril. I've said it a lot, but it's still true today. The only thing these people fear is being out of a job. Keep that pressure up, and it won't matter at all what the lame media is telling the sheep. The executive branch can't take your guns away folks.

    And once again, in case you missed it; the sky is NOT falling. Relax, take a deep breath & be safe.
    For the most part, I agree with you... but I have a question... in two parts:

    After the AWB of, what, 1994... the one with the 10 year sunset... after it was passed, many of the supporters were voted out... the gun folks told 'em it would happen, and it did... somewhere smack dab in the middle of the ban or shortly after it's enactment... right? They got voted out.

    Now... After they got voted out, and the great, new 2A supporters got voted in... By how much did they (and the rest of those in congress who already did not support the ban) change/shorten the sunset clause of the 1994 AWB? Was it 2 years, 4 years? Did they cut it in half? They changed not one jot nor tittle of that ban... they let it expire... but they didn't change it...

    When the new PERMANENT ban, or UBC law goes into effect, and we vote out all those who supported it.... And the new "Patriots" get sworn in... How much of the existing law will they change?

    I mean, after all, there will be more fiscal cliffs, and the onerous Obamacare package, and the literal bankruptcy of medicare and social security to deal with then, too and it will take all their time to fix those ills in the country.... they won't have time to deal with gun laws... They'll say:
    "I mean, after all, you have fairly decent weapons to defend yourselves with.... and our country is in crisis... we're gonna go bankrupt... and this health care thing, well it ain't workin' ... and you got seniors now, who aren't getting SS checks... and they paid into the system all their lives... and they're now getting welfare... and unemployment isn't any better.. .and ...well we got to deal with that important stuff and fix that before we can get to any gun laws... Sorry... but where are your priorities man?"
    But that'll never happen 'cause the ones that might vote for it now are afraid they might lose their jobs in a couple of years, really?

    What, with full salary retirement? Full health care, not Obamacare for life.... yeah, they're afraid, all right.

    Whoooeee! And then... when they elect Hillary, why, everything will be better then, won't it...


    Now, I may be chicken little... or I may be a sentinel meerkat, looking for predators all the time and sounding the alarm every time the wind blows up a puff of dust... or I might be crying "WOLF"... Or I might be an engineer saying... "You know.... these O rings aren't really working like we thought they would..."

    But, me... I guess I'd rather our leadership were doing more... We are the 49ers.. We're down... The skinny lady sang at half time, and then the lights went out.... now we got less than one half to come back and win this thing....

    We can stick with the defensive plays like writing our reps... I am still doing that... But I gotta look to the coaches (leadership=NRA, GOA, SAF, et.al) to give us some good offensive plays... To quote one of this state's old greats.... "ya gotta scratch where it itches..."

    Okee dokee... I've tried everything I know... sports metaphors, real life engineering, nature similes, nursery rhyme snippets, what have you... If you fail to see that we are on the very knife edge of losing this... which one of us has his head in the sand...

    Yes, we may get out of this.... but I will wager it won't be completely unscathed... mag limits, or UBCs, something. Or, God forbid, one more copycat... successful, deadly, and painful... And we will lose entirely.
    Jeanlouise and TX expat like this.
    Politicians, take note of Colorado 9/10/2013.
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    Your job is to "serve us" not to lord power over us."
    Me, 9/11/13

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigPapa226 View Post
    Double posted somehow & could not get rid of it.
    Go to "edit post"
    hit "delete"
    then check the little circle where it says, "delete message" again...you don't have to give a reason...and then click send or post reply.

    That will get rid of your double post. Happens to me when the site slows down.
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

  5. #34
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    Most of you here see this as the 'Dems" against the "Repubs"... "Libs" against "conservatives". It's not. It's 'gun people' against 'anti-gun people' FROM BOTH SIDES of the political fence.
    (snip)
    I don't see this war on guns coming from just the 'liberal' side. It's coming from both sides.
    And the Pro-2A group is a portion of both of the subsets. If the pro-2A group were solely Conservatives, the issue would be done and over the moment that Liberals gained a congressional or court majority, but yet it continues to go on. The Left fears a subset of their ranks referred to as the "gun swing", which is a rapidly growing segment of politically left and Independent people who very much have the potential to make or break a Leftist political win. This group has more power over the political left than any right wing pro-2A person ever will. Gun rights MUST become about peoples rights irrespective and independent of political affiliations. To do otherwise is to doom the 2A rights to the annals of history.

    People on this forum should be working with these people, not against them and not making statements about "the Obamma voter because he got free money". Your only damaging yourselves and working against your own interests with talk like this.
    Doghandler and Sig35seven like this.

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    And the Pro-2A group is a portion of both of the subsets. If the pro-2A group were solely Conservatives, the issue would be done and over the moment that Liberals gained a congressional or court majority, but yet it continues to go on. The Left fears a subset of their ranks referred to as the "gun swing", which is a rapidly growing segment of politically left and Independent people who very much have the potential to make or break a Leftist political win. This group has more power over the political left than any right wing pro-2A person ever will. Gun rights MUST become about peoples rights irrespective and independent of political affiliations. To do otherwise is to doom the 2A rights to the annals of history.

    People on this forum should be working with these people, not against them and not making statements about "the Obamma voter because he got free money". Your only damaging yourselves and working against your own interests with talk like this.
    red=truth

    If we lose the Second... all others will fall...

    Or more accurately, if we lose any more of the Second, more of each of the others will fall... Our rights under the BOR are being eroded more and more rapidly over time... as technology increases exponentially, so does the grab of rights... there is no correlation between the two, that's not what I'm saying... What I'm saying is that rights have been eroding slowly for some time, but the pace is quickening... and it is doing so exponentially... like the jump from 4 bit PCs to 8 to 16 to 32 to 64... it gets faster and faster... by orders of magnitude.

    Definition of exponential=
    Which would you rather have: $10,000.00 right now, or a penny that doubles every day for 30 days?

    in thirty days, that penny = $5,368,709.12
    Politicians, take note of Colorado 9/10/2013.
    "You are elected to service, not power.
    Your job is to "serve us" not to lord power over us."
    Me, 9/11/13

  7. #36
    Member Array RicT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    I disagree. What's needed is for gun owners to "come out" to their friends and family and show them that it's not just nutjobs who own guns.
    (Many good statements deleted to save space)
    I agree with all that you've said.

    But what about if we go on the offensive, as many posts have suggested? By that I mean, use the Administration's own tactics against it; specifically, the tactic of introducing a whole new subject in order to deflect attention away from "gun control"...

    Whatever happened to the "Operation Fast & Furious" investigation? Seems like now would be a good time to "strike back" by re-introducing that situation into the news media. I know I saw very little of this investigation in the mainstream media, which means that they haven't "saturated" their viewers/readers with it...which means that if it was brought up again properly, it might take on some momentum.

    Get the Administration on the defensive while they have several other subjects to handle (immigration, budget/debt, Hispanic vote, etc...), and "gun control" might once again slide to the bottom of the pile.

    I'm going to do some more research into "Op F&F" myself, and send some letters/emails to selected legislators & media types who MIGHT have an interest in bringing this back to life...

  8. #37
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Yesterday, my local news radio station reported that "Today a man went on a shooting rampage in a movie theater." It was perhaps 10 minutes later when they followed up the story and after they went through the details they eventually revealed that it was a police training event.

    Disgusting.

  9. #38
    Member Array Mtnmanca's Avatar
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    Why we're ultimately going to lose our gun rights

    Mbguy2957... You talk about how the NRA does an "ok" job at speaking on behalf of gun owners and some might agree and some might disagree. Instead of telling us how we need to have someone do a better job at thrilling the crowds, do like me and many many more Americans... Speak! We all have voices and the more we talk to our senators, volunteer out time to educate on the pros of guns and all other things guns the better the word will get around rather than just one man. You will have a better chance of getting your word across to someone who doesn't listen to the news but will listen to their friend, neighbor, relative, etc.

  10. #39
    Member Array Mtnmanca's Avatar
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    Why we're ultimately going to lose our gun rights

    The US Supreme Court ruled that banning so called assault weapons and limiting magazine capacity would be unconstitutional. Their take on it was you can't look simply at the cons. You have to also look at the pro. Guns save more lives in America... Roughly 2.5 million in 2011 therefor the good of a gun outweighs the bad of a gun. But with our president on an anti gun agenda thrown into 5th gear there will be some changes but as far as taking them away it will be hard.
    Diane Feinstein tried in the past to put into affect such a law bu once it hit the floor it died. She is trying the same thing but with more laws. I think after all that's gone on it will be in vein that these laws are put into effect. I can promise one thing though... It will not work. Just like our president increasing taxes and everything else all the libs said wouldn't happen. I enjoy being the one who said I told you so

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanislaskasava View Post
    Yesterday, my local news radio station reported that "Today a man went on a shooting rampage in a movie theater." It was perhaps 10 minutes later when they followed up the story and after they went through the details they eventually revealed that it was a police training event.

    Disgusting.
    if it bleeds, it leads... even if it's fake blood... "give us Dirty Laundry"

    That's pretty base. I'm sure they'll stoop to worse... they just gotta find it.
    Politicians, take note of Colorado 9/10/2013.
    "You are elected to service, not power.
    Your job is to "serve us" not to lord power over us."
    Me, 9/11/13

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtnmanca View Post
    The US Supreme Court ruled that banning so called assault weapons and limiting magazine capacity would be unconstitutional. Their take on it was you can't look simply at the cons. You have to also look at the pro. Guns save more lives in America... Roughly 2.5 million in 2011 therefor the good of a gun outweighs the bad of a gun. But with our president on an anti gun agenda thrown into 5th gear there will be some changes but as far as taking them away it will be hard.
    Diane Feinstein tried in the past to put into affect such a law bu once it hit the floor it died. She is trying the same thing but with more laws. I think after all that's gone on it will be in vein that these laws are put into effect. I can promise one thing though... It will not work. Just like our president increasing taxes and everything else all the libs said wouldn't happen. I enjoy being the one who said I told you so
    Just out of curiosity, what do you think the SCOTUS opinion of the Second Amendment is going to be after the community organizer seats two to four Supreme Court justices in the next four years?
    NRA Life Member

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  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    if it bleeds, it leads... even if it's fake blood... "give us Dirty Laundry"

    That's pretty base. I'm sure they'll stoop to worse... they just gotta find it.
    I thought if it bleeds, we can kill it.
    Doghandler likes this.
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  14. #43
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtnmanca View Post
    The US Supreme Court ruled that banning so called assault weapons and limiting magazine capacity would be unconstitutional. Their take on it was you can't look simply at the cons. You have to also look at the pro. Guns save more lives in America... Roughly 2.5 million in 2011 therefor the good of a gun outweighs the bad of a gun. But with our president on an anti gun agenda thrown into 5th gear there will be some changes but as far as taking them away it will be hard.
    Diane Feinstein tried in the past to put into affect such a law bu once it hit the floor it died. She is trying the same thing but with more laws. I think after all that's gone on it will be in vein that these laws are put into effect. I can promise one thing though... It will not work. Just like our president increasing taxes and everything else all the libs said wouldn't happen. I enjoy being the one who said I told you so
    How many years does it take to mount a Supreme Court challenge? And how much money? and will you volunteer to be the test case?

    Dianne Feinstien and her ilk also tried in the past to put into effect ... and we had to live under that SOB for 10 years... Oh and BTW, the only compromise we got was the 10 year sunset... they wanted it permanent then... and it was the NRA who gave the rest of it away... but they also cajoled for that 10 year expiration.
    Politicians, take note of Colorado 9/10/2013.
    "You are elected to service, not power.
    Your job is to "serve us" not to lord power over us."
    Me, 9/11/13

  15. #44
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtnmanca View Post
    The US Supreme Court ruled that banning so called assault weapons and limiting magazine capacity would be unconstitutional. Their take on it was you can't look simply at the cons. You have to also look at the pro. Guns save more lives in America... Roughly 2.5 million in 2011 therefor the good of a gun outweighs the bad of a gun. But with our president on an anti gun agenda thrown into 5th gear there will be some changes but as far as taking them away it will be hard.
    Diane Feinstein tried in the past to put into affect such a law bu once it hit the floor it died. She is trying the same thing but with more laws. I think after all that's gone on it will be in vein that these laws are put into effect. I can promise one thing though... It will not work. Just like our president increasing taxes and everything else all the libs said wouldn't happen. I enjoy being the one who said I told you so
    How many years does it take to mount a Supreme Court challenge? And how much money? and will you volunteer to be the test case?

    Dianne Feinstien and her ilk also tried in the past to put into effect ... and we had to live under that SOB for 10 years... Oh and BTW, the only compromise we got was the 10 year sunset... they wanted it permanent then... and it was the NRA who gave the rest of it away... but they also cajoled for that 10 year expiration.
    Politicians, take note of Colorado 9/10/2013.
    "You are elected to service, not power.
    Your job is to "serve us" not to lord power over us."
    Me, 9/11/13

  16. #45
    Senior Member Array Warmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigPapa226 View Post
    Do you really think it has not been reconstituted someplace else?
    It has already happened and it's called the AP [Associated Press]...they don't even bother hiding it anymore.
    I always aim for the right eye...and I never miss - Goldeneye

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