Why we're ultimately going to lose our gun rights

This is a discussion on Why we're ultimately going to lose our gun rights within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Jeanlouise You could not be more wrong about that. Do you seriously mean to tell me that you think retired military people ...

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  1. #76
    Distinguished Member Array lchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanlouise View Post
    You could not be more wrong about that. Do you seriously mean to tell me that you think retired military people are backing the anti's? Also, there are plenty of people on Social Security (which they earned by the way) who are very pro 2A.
    You are confusing the issues. One does not equal the other.
    I'm retired military and also drawing social security. I never expected to draw SS, and planned my retirement. I wouldn't vote for ANY incumbent from either party.

    I'm currently reading a book that was written in 1997. It talks about a $5 trillion dollar debt and the corruption in Washington. Things haven't changed for decades.

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  3. #77
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Why we're ultimately going to lose our gun rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanlouise View Post
    You could not be more wrong about that. Do you seriously mean to tell me that you think retired military people are backing the anti's? Also, there are plenty of people on Social Security (which they earned by the way) who are very pro 2A.
    You are confusing the issues. One does not equal the other.
    I am an employee of the state and I am avidly pro-2A as are most of my coworkers. Comments like the 47% do more damage to our 2A cause than you can possibly believe. I don't give a damn how Conservative you think you are, it is still absolutely irrelevant to peoples gun rights. Stop putting off our much needed supporters with your political nonsense! (That wasn't directed at you JL).

  4. #78
    Distinguished Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuckNekkid View Post
    ^^THIS for sure^^^....you can bet that when children are being suspended for making finger guns, the plan is to "breed in" a base fear/hatred of firearms. If this is not countered by us, in our households, the effects of this fear/hatred will be seen within 10-15 years when those kids start voting. The blessings of liberty are ours to protect "for ourselves and our posterity." I think some smart guys said that a long time ago. It still applies.
    Yep. Back when my two sons were very young, I somehow came to discover that the daycare they were in didn't allow toy guns and I'm pretty sure this was a decision made by the liberal owner of the place. Once I heard this, I took them that very day to Wal-Mart and got them some cap guns. They know that I own guns and I've allowed my oldest son (now 14) to shoot a few of mine. We've had a few conversations about the current attempted gun ban and they both seem to "get it."
    TX expat likes this.
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  5. #79
    Senior Member Array SigPapa226's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXD View Post
    Yep. Back when my two sons were very young, I somehow came to discover that the daycare they were in didn't allow toy guns and I'm pretty sure this was a decision made by the liberal owner of the place. Once I heard this, I took them that very day to Wal-Mart and got them some cap guns. They know that I own guns and I've allowed my oldest son (now 14) to shoot a few of mine. We've had a few conversations about the current attempted gun ban and they both seem to "get it."
    Good on you.

    When I was 12 I got a 22 Rifle for Christmas. When I was 14 I got a 410 shotgun for Christmas.

    Start them young & teach them "proper" Gun Control.
    Ten Bears: It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men.

  6. #80
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveWorkman View Post
    Boys and girls....the Fox network consistently gets higher ratings than any of the others, and they're putting up a pretty good alternative to the big three networks.
    I dunno where all of this pessimism comes from.

    We're turning the debate on guns, we're hammering MSNBC and CNN, and it looks like we're going to win on capitol hill.

    This doom and gloom...it's baseless.

    Okay then, Dave.

    I'm standing down... Shoot, you guys and the lobbyists in DC gots it all under control... NRA's got our back, chillax folks... Nothing to see here... just wait for the final result... we're gonna win.

    Well, I'm glad that's settled.
    ______________________________

    Now, this is what I really think:

    The new AWB may not pass in toto.

    There may be a mag ban... maybe not ten rounds. would you take 20?

    They will close the non existent gun show loophole... there will be some sort of UBC...

    And the last one will happen even if we keep fighting, and keep fighting hard. And the other two will happen if we stop.

    How can I say this... Well we still got the first amendment, and it isn't political, and it's about guns, and it's about the second amendment, so I'm even covered under the forum rules.

    But aside from that, I look at the history of the thing... this gun issue... and I see the antis with a much more tailored message, and I see the conservative side being oh so conservative.

    con·serv·a·tive /kənˈsərvətiv/
    Adjective= Holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in politics or religion.
    Noun= A person who is averse to change and holds to traditional values and attitudes, typically in politics.

    But I'm not talking religion or politics... I'm talking tactics... our side, our leadership, is conservative in their tactics. And you may say it's worked before... But I ask, did it really?

    Q:What would the 1994 AWB have been, if we hadn't negotiated so hard?
    A:It would have been permanent. That useless law that dealt with accessories for the most part, would have been permanent.... And we would be living with a ten round limit still today... the only "give" the traditional, conservative, lobbying method got us was a sunset clause. And we had to wait ten years, and rattle our sabres again, to make sure it was allowed to expire.

    Back then, it was for the most part, one law. On a national level (and maybe Massachusetts). You now have a dozen or more laws at state levels, local levels, and the federal level.

    If you walk into a swarm of bees... will you not get stung, even once?

    The antis talk about common sense, and we say they have none... When they get their UBCs, and if they get mag limits... They'll say... "yeah, we gots no common sense. Lookee there, y'all clingers was asleep at the switch, wasn't yaz..? Well, Bless your hearts, better luck next time..."
    TX expat and Crowbait like this.
    Politicians, take note of Colorado 9/10/2013.
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    Your job is to "serve us" not to lord power over us."
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  7. #81
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    I'm done making predictions because I was one who thought Obama would LOSE in 2012. So now I just assume the worst.
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

  8. #82
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G26Raven View Post
    Why we're ultimately going to lose our gun rights
    Being "outgunned" in the media by biased reporting and "news" isn't even half the story.

    With rational elected representatives and engagement directly with them, there's every chance the mass media-directed slanting and undermining of "the will of the people" can be outflanked. But it takes a heavy, concerted and continuous effort on the part of people who are passionate and care about the cause, and a similar effort by those lobby groups who can additionally bring pressure to bear.

    Write, fax, phone, meet them in person ... every little bit helps, when it comes to engaging our temporarily-elected staff we've inserted (elected) into offices in our states and congress.

    The one thing we've got to get them to do is fairly straightforward, difficult though that appears to be: hold them to their blood oath to both protect and defend the Constitution. The more frequently they are each reminded of their sworn oath and duty, and our position with regard not only the 2A but all of our rights and their responsibilities, the better off we'll all be. Feet to the raging fire, in this regard, can go a long way.

    The whole push toward lawful concealed carry that's occurred in the past 20+ years is heartening. Though, there have been some setbacks here and there, along with year-after-year anti-gunner attempts to destroy the Second Amendment's purpose and meaning. IMO, that fight will never end, not so long as we have a SCOTUS that fails to recognize the 2A as disallowing infringement.
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  9. #83
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    I think you meant never END until SCOTUS changes...

    And yes, we've got to keep our reps feet to the fire... But, if they vote for some new restrictions... even if we replace them, the likelihood that any current changes would be undone (at the fed level)is very slim.

    Somehow, we've got to get John Q. Public... some of the ~50% of this nation that don't own firearms, to understand.. And to join the fight for the 2nd. John Q. has to learn that infringing on the second, can, over time, erode his other rights under the constitution...

    Now, that IS a challenge... go out on the street and ask someone what the bill of rights guarantees... Which are the rights guaranteed under it? They can maybe name one or two... What about the rest? How do they affect them?

    Now, since they don't know many of them, how can it be important to them to protect any of them?

    And so, we see the crux of the problem...

    And John Q. doesn't want to be educated... he doesn't want to know... he's got his big screen tv, and his weekends, and his casinos.. and his dog parks... life is good...
    Politicians, take note of Colorado 9/10/2013.
    "You are elected to service, not power.
    Your job is to "serve us" not to lord power over us."
    Me, 9/11/13

  10. #84
    Distinguished Member Array lchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanlouise View Post
    I'm done making predictions because I was one who thought Obama would LOSE in 2012. So now I just assume the worst.
    yeah...just wishful thinking on my part...

  11. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by G26Raven View Post
    I intuitively knew that we were outgunned in the media, but here are some pretty grim statistics...

    Big Three Networks Favor Obama Gun Ban Campaign

    Without a larger slice of the media either in our camp, or at least reporting the news objectively, we are going to lose some or all of our gun rights. Since the general public can't or won't take the time to educate themselves, they will only parrot back what they read in the media and hear the politicians say.

    I am sure that better minds than mine have been scratching for a solution, but so far I can't think of anything short of a major terrorist attack thwarted by armed citizens, as making a case for the RKBA. And, even if this happened, I doubt the media would report it....
    Every poll I see indicates overwhelming support from the public on RTKBA. Every video I see rated indicates the same thing. Those who would take gun rights are a minority, regardless of how much the media and the administration strives to convince us otherwise.
    "Who are the ones that we kept in charge? Killers, thieves, and lawyers"

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  12. #86
    Senior Member Array bklynboy's Avatar
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    My crystal ball says:

    The new AWB may not pass in toto. Agree

    There may be a mag ban... maybe not ten rounds. would you take 20? Agree that it will not likely pass - and no I would not take 20 - , but if it does pass, it will be found unconstitutional if <30

    They will close the non existent gun show loophole... there will be some sort of UBC...Agree, and if done properly, I do not think it will be a major burden (though I am not holding my breath that it will be done properly). Broader checks will not be found to be unconstituitonal

    And the last one will happen even if we keep fighting, and keep fighting hard. And the other two will happen if we stop. Agree

  13. #87
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Re: Why we're ultimately going to lose our gun rights

    Any more "burden" than we have right now is too much.

    And no matter what, they will not get it right, and it will only burden the law abiding.
    Politicians, take note of Colorado 9/10/2013.
    "You are elected to service, not power.
    Your job is to "serve us" not to lord power over us."
    Me, 9/11/13

  14. #88
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lchamp View Post
    I wouldn't vote for ANY incumbent from either party.
    Amen brother........ Now if only we could get the majority of voters to do that.......
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

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