It looks like Tennessee is going to get a Parking Lot Bill passed!!!!

[Tangle]

A bill that would allow employees to keep guns in their cars while at work has passed the Senate 28-5, IIRC. It would also allow non-students with carry permits to store their guns in their car on school property as I understand it.

The companion bill must be passed in the House, but all indications are it will be passed. There was some early concern that schools would be excluded, but the indication I see right now is that professors, such as myself, will be able to legally store a gun in their car.

This bill(s) would also clear up another ambiguity in TN law that says we can carry a gun on school property, but as it stands, it seems that the AG of TN interprets that to mean if one is not aware he has a gun in his vehicle???

As it stands right now, it is a felony to have a gun in a car, in any form, on school property.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[OldVet]

Good for TN! One thing I like about FL statutes is, for the most part, they are well written. Several--such as the gray area over accidental CW exposure--have been clarified in no uncertain wording.

[Northface]

As it stands right now, it is a felony to have a gun in a car, in any form, on school property.

Tennessee Code

39-17-1309. Carrying weapons on school property.

(c) (1) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any firearm, not used solely for instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. It is not an offense under this subsection (c) for a nonstudent adult to possess a firearm, if the firearm is contained within a private vehicle operated by the adult and is not handled by the adult, or by any other person acting with the expressed or implied consent of the adult, while the vehicle is on school property.

[NCSoxFan]

Now they need to construct random points for cover between exit points and parking lots to help with the 3-5 second rush out to your vehicle/gun.

[Tangle]

Tennessee Code

39-17-1309. Carrying weapons on school property.

(c) (1) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any firearm, not used solely for instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. It is not an offense under this subsection (c) for a nonstudent adult to possess a firearm, if the firearm is contained within a private vehicle operated by the adult and is not handled by the adult, or by any other person acting with the expressed or implied consent of the adult, while the vehicle is on school property.

I thought that (part in bold) made it quite clear, so I tried to confirm it via John Harris of the TFA and he says that part is interpreted by the TN AG to mean the person was not aware the gun was in the vehicle. I have no earthly idea how something that clear and succinct could mean anything other than what it says.

Also, that part in bold, probably doesn't mean a thing if the property is posted, and all schools I'm aware of are posted. So even if it means exactly what it says, you still can't have a gun on school property, or non-school property being used by the school.

The Parking Lot Bill would make it legal for non-students to keep a gun in their car while on school property, even if the property is posted.

[SpringerXD]

As it stands right now, it is a felony to have a gun in a car, in any form, on school property.

When I took my CCW class, we were told that it's fine to have it in the car when dropping a child off or picking them up. I'm not sure about parking in the lot for other reasons.

[Tangle]

When I took my CCW class, we were told that it's fine to have it in the car when dropping a child off or picking them up. I'm not sure about parking in the lot for other reasons.

That is my understanding as well. I didn't mention that because the Parking Lot Bill pertains only to leaving a gun in a parked car on school property.

[jem102]

However, the bill does not prevent the employer from terminating the employee as I understand it if the property is posted against weapons. So it is junk legislation and why all the sudden RAMSEY and company are all for it. They are trying to side step the issue and keep the big employers happy while saying to gun owners, "look how we take care of you".

[Tangle]

However, the bill does not prevent the employer from terminating the employee as I understand it if the property is posted against weapons. So it is junk legislation and why all the sudden RAMSEY and company are all for it. They are trying to side step the issue and keep the big employers happy while saying to gun owners, "look how we take care of you".

They can fire an employee now for bringing a gun in the parking lot.

You don't really think the TN Legislature is going pass a bill to 'trap' people into leaving their guns their cars in their employer's parking lot so they can be fired do you?

Don't you think they would know that would backfire on them big time if they did that? I don't think the business would want that anymore than they want guns in their parking lots.

[jem102]

So you think we would be better off if the bill doesn't pass?

Not unless the house can amend it to give it some meaning. You said you contacted John Harris, what did he tell you about the bill?
The whole purpose was to protect law abiding citizens from retribution at the hands of an employer so you can protect yourself on the way to and from work by legally storing your firearm in your locked car, on the employer's lot, while at work. This bill does not stop the employer from posting the property and taking retribution against an employee that has a firearm in their vehicle.

[Tangle]

Not unless the house can amend it to give it some meaning. You said you contacted John Harris, what did he tell you about the bill?

I didn't contact John about the bill. I said I asked him about the statements in bold taken from the current Tennessee law that suggests it is not illegal to have a gun in a car on school property.

...This bill does not stop the employer from posting the property and taking retribution against an employee that has a firearm in their vehicle.

But it doesn't provide that the employer can take retribution either. As John says it, "...it doesn't preclude...". The problem would be that if a company fired an employee because he had a gun in his parked car, the person could take the case to court. Without the bill in place, he couldn't.

If the case went to court, and if the court upheld the company's action, then it would be clear that the TN legislature has some fixing to do. If the court ruled against the company's action, then that would put an end to that.

The bill isn't perfect, but maybe it's a good start. Most of the big businesses are opposed to this bill. It might be easier to get a bill passed and amend it later than trying to get the whole thing done in one big step.

I don't like the loop hole that the bill specifies your personal car. E.g. what if our personal car was unavailable and we had to borrow or rent a car? However, personal is often interpreted as that which is under our control rather than a specific vehicle. E.g. the bill may say 'personal' to distinguish it from a school owned car, or car rented by the school.

Plus, bills often carry 'intent' with them. Like you said, it is the intent to allow licensed gun owners to leave their gun in parked cars.

[OldVet]

"so I tried to confirm it via John Harris of the TFA and he says that part is interpreted by the TN AG to mean the person was not aware the gun was in the vehicle."

I would challenge Mr. Harris and the TN AG to show what word or words imply any level of "awarness" in that statute. He's (They're) blowing smoke to bluff you into not having a gun in the car.

[Tangle]

"so I tried to confirm it via John Harris of the TFA and he says that part is interpreted by the TN AG to mean the person was not aware the gun was in the vehicle."

I would challenge Mr. Harris and the TN AG to show what word or words imply any level of "awarness" in that statute. He's (They're) blowing smoke to bluff you into not having a gun in the car.

John Harris founded the Tennessee Firearms Association many years ago and has fought for gun rights in Tennessee for all those years. If John could get his way, we could carry without the state license and carry anywhere including at school.

This is what John, an attorney himself, says about the quoted law:

"The entire school grounds issue is poorly written and we have been trying to change it now for 15 years.

The problem arises under the distinction(s) if any between 39-17-1309 subsections B and C. B is almost always applied by law enforcement and DA's to bolster the position that knowing possession on school grounds, even in a car, is a felony. C has, in my experience, only been used when a firearm is discovered in a vehicle and law enforcement believes that at the time the driver was unaware that it was in the vehicle."

[jem102]

The bill does not stop the employer from posting the property...In the state of TN signs carry the weight of law. The premise of the bill was to make a legal exception to the signs under the condition of "Safe Commute". This will not accomplish that goal as written so" I" consider it nothing but a ruse by the by the legislature to" burn the rope at both ends."

[sigs]

The bill does not stop the employer from posting the property...In the state of TN signs carry the weight of law. The premise of the bill was to make a legal exception to the signs under the condition of "Safe Commute". This will not accomplish that goal as written so" I" consider it nothing but a ruse by the by the legislature to" burn the rope at both ends."

Bolded: This is what I wish TN would get rid of. Makes it hard to carry when I go back to visit family. Not of fan of having to run back to hide my gun in the car when I get to a restaurant.