2A - Gun Rights: Are There Any Peaceful Solutions Left? Two Articles

2A - Gun Rights: Are There Any Peaceful Solutions Left? Two Articles

This is a discussion on 2A - Gun Rights: Are There Any Peaceful Solutions Left? Two Articles within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; My Comments: There are three links below addressing the same theme. The first is well worth the read, for the logic of the discussion/argument as ...

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    2A - Gun Rights: Are There Any Peaceful Solutions Left? Two Articles

    My Comments: There are three links below addressing the same theme. The first is well worth the read, for the logic of the discussion/argument as well as for the additional links contained in that article for supporting information. The second and third links take the theme a bit further. Your thoughts?


    Friday, 15 February 2013 04:36 Brandon Smith

    ...........It’s sad how gun grabbers lose track of reality. Neither federal authority, nor state authority, supplants the legal barriers of the Constitution itself, meaning, no federal or local authority has the right or power to remove our freedom of speech, our freedom of assembly, our freedom of privacy, OR our freedom to own firearms (including firearms of military utility). The Constitution and the Bill of Rights supersede all other legal and political entities (including treaties, as ruled by the Supreme Court). At least, that’s what the Founding Fathers intended when they established this nation. The point is, a state is well within its rights to defy the Federal Government if it is enacting unconstitutional abuses, and the people are well within their rights to defy a state when it does the same.

    Gun Rights: Are There Any Peaceful Solutions Left?



    February 17, 2013 - 12:00 am Paul Hsieh

    Would New Gun Laws Spark Widespread Civil Disobedience?
    PJ Media Would New Gun Laws Spark Widespread Civil Disobedience?



    Bonus - Hate him or love him: Levin: US preparing for societal collapse by buying up billions of rounds of ammo [AUDIO] | The Daily Caller
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    I've subscribed to this thread and will be very interested to see how others respond. There's a lot here so difficult for me to say much now other than the Brandon Smith article hits many of the main issues and offers a rather scary prognosis (not one I necessarily disagree with). I'll read the others but trying to digest the first for now. Nice post OP!
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    There must be peaceful solutions. Those --and I think there are many-- who seem to hope for
    some sort of non-peaceful solution have no clue what they are wishing for.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    There must be peaceful solutions. Those --and I think there are many-- who seem to hope for
    some sort of non-peaceful solution have no clue what they are wishing for.
    I don't believe this is a fair statement. I believe for the most part we just want to be left alone.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
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    Everyone has they're own line in the sand, some peaceful, some not .
    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunder bolt...... Sun Tzu.

    The supreme art of war is to defeat the enemy without fighting........ Sun Tzu.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DPro.40 View Post
    I don't believe this is a fair statement. I believe for the most part we just want to be left alone.
    Well, no one will leave you alone if you try for a non-peaceful resolution. Uh, maybe they'll leave your body
    where it falls though.

    Honestly, I do not begin to understand the mentality of family people, people with wives, children, parents,
    jobs, nice homes, working to incite others to the physical destruction of our country. It is insanity.

    Added a moment later--- Our constitution provides the pathway to peaceful resolutions.
    It provides everyone here the opportunity to speak out about what they want, and to speak out
    not just to their representatives but in newspapers and magazines, in full page ads in the NY Times if you have the bucks or can get together with others to get the bucks.

    It provides the opportunity to assemble to protest--- in front of Congress if you like or the SC.

    It provides all manner of courts to hear your complaints.
    It provides 50 separate state legislatures which may be swayed in different directions
    and you are perfectly free to choose which state to live in.

    It provides a complex system of checks and balances and separation of powers to thwart
    the worst inclinations of the most stupid and emotional amongst the solons.

    If you or anyone else thinks things are bad here now, consider what a catastrophic place this would be in the aftermath of what many are typing about. Again, some are talking insanity.
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    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    In what was presented, I don't see anyone wanting to incite the destruction of our country. The destruction of our country began years ago but is being accelerated by the government itself. Apparently there are still some Americans who believe their rights are inviolate and are willing to take a firm stand to protect those rights should it become necessary. Many of those who already died to purchase our rights also had families. Let's hope the government, which no longer represents the will of the people, returns to the values which created this republic before any one feels it necessary to go beyond protest and civil disobedience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Well, no one will leave you alone if you try for a non-peaceful resolution. Uh, maybe they'll leave your body
    where it falls though.

    Honestly, I do not begin to understand the mentality of family people, people with wives, children, parents,
    jobs, nice homes, working to incite others to the physical destruction of our country. It is insanity.
    On the attack again Hop? How do you get just wanting to be left alone to inciting violence? Did i say being left alone is the same as a non- peaceful resolution ? I'd like nothing more that a peaceful resolution. If they would leave us alone we would be happier, thus a peaceful resolution. Want to take a poll how many would like to see them go away? Of course if they did what would you do all day ? I'm not sure how you can turn being left alone around to inciting violent interaction is beyond me. Where by body falls? Your are so far out of line. I think you should check your own sanity old man. Are you bored today Hop and need to start an argument. The only inciting being done here is you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyBill View Post
    In what was presented, I don't see anyone wanting to incite the destruction of our country. The destruction of our country began years ago but is being accelerated by the government itself. Apparently there are still some Americans who believe their rights are inviolate and are willing to take a firm stand to protect those rights should it become necessary. Many of those who already died to purchase our rights also had families. Let's hope the government, which no longer represents the will of the people, returns to the values which created this republic before any one feels it necessary to go beyond protest and civil disobedience.
    What does the part in bold mean?

    I'm fine so long as that means working within our present system given all the freedom it provides
    to speak our mind, contest in courts, twist the arms of Congress Critters.

    Once it means something outside of the lawful bounds, and many here have spoken on that edge or just
    over it a tad-- while backing out and saying their words were misinterpreted once challenged--- the results can only
    be catastrophic.

    Our country is doing just fine in most respects, notwithstanding the constant jabbering of the dissatisfied.
    Its destruction isn't around the corner, and the government is not the enemy of the people of the United States.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    There must be peaceful solutions. Those --and I think there are many-- who seem to hope for
    some sort of non-peaceful solution have no clue what they are wishing for.
    The type of person you're describing is few and far between **cough**cough**Yeager**cough**. Not many people are very enthusiastic about an all-out civil war over guns or anything else. But there comes a point where people will stand up and fight back. Look at the protests in New York right now. I honestly would have never believed there would be such support for gun rights there, even upstate.

    So yes, I think there are plenty of peaceful solutions. But sadly, the further this gun control insanity goes, the less peaceful options there will be.
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    It's the government setting the Narrative. The antis here suggesting we seek civil unrest are just looking of political talking points. Contrary to statements made here, all of us who have CCW permits are law abiding citizens. Last I checked, they don't issue permits to Felons.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Our country is doing just fine in most respects, notwithstanding the constant jabbering of the dissatisfied.
    Its destruction isn't around the corner, and the government is not the enemy of the people of the United States.
    Citing the Constitution and all the wonderful freedoms and avenues it provides rings hollow when our federal government constantly violates that exact same document. Accusing anyone who is completely fed up with this situation of wanting violence and a civil war is just plain ridiculous. And I don't know what country you're living in that you're under the impression is doing "just fine", but it's not this one. Things obviously could be far worse, but that doesn't mean we are on the right path or that there are not very serious problems. And if you think the government is your friend, as you seem to imply...wow. Sticking your head in the sand helps nothing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    What does the part in bold mean?

    I'm fine so long as that means working within our present system given all the freedom it provides
    to speak our mind, contest in courts, twist the arms of Congress Critters.

    Once it means something outside of the lawful bounds, and many here have spoken on that edge or just
    over it a tad-- while backing out and saying their words were misinterpreted once challenged--- the results can only
    be catastrophic.

    Our country is doing just fine in most respects, notwithstanding the constant jabbering of the dissatisfied.
    Its destruction isn't around the corner, and the government is not the enemy of the people of the United States.
    I think its pretty obvious what the part in bold means. You seem articulate so my assumption is you also grasp the meaning.

    And I also agree with the other poster that people are generally law abiding. But will you obey a law contrary to constitutional provision? Suppose the government decides tomorrow that private possession of a firearm is a felony? You planning on turning your gun's in? If not you'll be a felon.

    Yes, unfortunately this government is unrestrained and unabashed. Anyone who believes our country is doing fine in most respects is in severe denial.
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    I read the article and I don't disagree with any of it. Much of what he says we have discussed at one time or another.

    We are getting closer everyday to that next "revolution" or "civil war" that the Liberals love to use to expose their point of view and use to further an agenda.

    I'd be willing to bet that if you replaced the words "Federal Government" with the "King of England"or "Tyrant" or "Dictator" or "Emperor" most if not all of these arguments have been cussed and discussed through various times in history.

    We are on a continuous cycle that is no different of any other because we are human and we have short memories. Its never been any different through history.



    Fact of the matter is, men of integrity have a breaking point. At some point in time, those with a clue will wake up one morning and realize that if they don't risk everything including their lives to fix the wrongs, then they are as much to blame as those that are doing the wrongs, because by their silence they are consenting.

    The problem is, and always has been, that by the time they figure it out, violence is the only answer to the problem, because violence is the only thing the those that are doing wrong understand, it is the only way to change things once all other methods are exhausted.

    Many people now, today, are getting to that point. With each new day of wrongs, more people that understand are being added to list.

    The question here now is not "if" it will happen, but only of "when".

    It's coming. I do not cherish the thought and no sane or intelligent man does. In the meantime, the liberals and even some conservatives whine and argue and joke about that day and pretend that some people want it to happen, without realizing that when it does, they will be seen as part of the problem, rather than the solution.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyBill View Post
    I think its pretty obvious what the part in bold means. You seem articulate so my assumption is you also grasp the meaning.

    And I also agree with the other poster that people are generally law abiding. But will you obey a law contrary to constitutional provision? Suppose the government decides tomorrow that private possession of a firearm is a felony? You planning on turning your gun's in? If not you'll be a felon.

    Yes, unfortunately this government is unrestrained and unabashed. Anyone who believes our country is doing fine in most respects is in severe denial.
    It is not my place to make that determination. There are in fact plenty of thing we do which I think skirt the edges of our
    constitution but which are blessed by The Supremes? Aspects of Terry Stops for example; ID to get on a plane as another
    example. We either take our constitution as it is and uphold it, which includes upholding the rulings of the courts, or we
    do what?---some here won't exactly come out to say fight violently, but they will use the word fight and weasel about what
    that means. They'll speak of killing, and weasel about what that means.

    There is only one way to solve our problems, including differences on what the constitution means. That is to follow our constitution and let the system work its will. Anything else will be an utter disaster which will win us, and everyone else nothing
    but misery.

    You may think the meaning of your opening statement is obvious and "innocent"; but it is rather ambiguous and could be taken
    by some in a very wrong way, IMO.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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