Who is responsible for your (and your family's) safety?

This is a discussion on Who is responsible for your (and your family's) safety? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I posted this on my FB page after seeing a bunch of lefty friends post quotes with pics of the POTUS about how if the ...

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Thread: Who is responsible for your (and your family's) safety?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Who is responsible for your (and your family's) safety?

    I posted this on my FB page after seeing a bunch of lefty friends post quotes with pics of the POTUS about how if the next gun control measure passes and just "saves one child..." drivel. Followed by the usual ignorance of how police are there to protect you, I posted the following that I've compiled over the last dozen years. Feel free to distribute accordingly.

    <Start post>

    Is it the police? or are you responsible for your and your family's safety? What are you doing to ensure your safety and protect you and your family? Hoping something bad won't happen to you is not a plan. To be clear: I am NOT an advocate of vigilantism. I AM FOR defending yourself (and family) lawfully because police WILL NOT be in your home (or standing next to you) when you are about to be raped, assaulted, robbed, or murdered. If you believe the police have a duty to protect you (and your family), please read what the Supreme Court, Federal Circuit, and State Supreme Courts have ruled over the last 60 years...and are still true today.

    Have a plan, seek training for you, your family and friends. Thinking it won't happen to you--well, I certainly hope you are right...but you keep fire extinguishers and smoke alarms at home and wear your seatbelt when in a car, right? Are you planning on starting a fire in your house or having an automobile accident? I hope not. Know this: YOU don't get the time and place of the crime--the criminal gets 51% of the vote on the when and where.

    Be prepared to be surprised.

    Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981), states: “fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen.” The court ruled that the state has no duty to provide public goods, thus the police have no obligation to protect and thus do not even have to come to your assistance.

    Riss v. City of New York, 22 N.Y.2d 579, 293 NYS2d 897, 240 N.E.2d 860 (N.Y. Ct. of Ap. 1958); a woman who telephoned police to beg for protection from her boyfriend sued the city for its failure to protect her from an assault in which he threw lye in her face, blinding her in one eye, damaging the other and scarring her face. The city denied responsibility, and the courts agreed. Dissenting opinion: What makes the City's position particularly difficult to understand is that, in conformity to the dictates of the law, Linda did not carry any weapon for self-defense. Thus by a rather bitter irony she was required to rely for protection on the City of New York which now denies all responsibility to her

    Keane v. City of Chicago, 98 Ill. App.2d 460, 240 N.E.2d 321 (1968); On 20 April 1961, Josephine M. Keane, a teacher in the Chicago City Public Schools was assaulted and killed on school premises by a student enrolled in the school. Keane's family sued the City of Chicago, claiming that, "the City was negligent in failing to assign police protection to the school, although it knew or should have known that failure to provide this protection would result in harm to persons lawfully on the premises (because) it knew or should have known of the dangerous condition then existing at the school." The Appeals Court affirmed the judgment of the Circuit Court of Cook County. Presiding Judge Burke of the Appeals Court held that, "Failure on the part of a municipality to exercise a government function does not, without more, expose the municipality to liability." Justice Burke went on to say that: "To hold that under the circumstances alleged in the complaint the City owed a special duty' to Mrs. Keane for the safety and well being of her person would impose an all but impossible burden upon the City, considering the numerous police, fire, housing and other laws, ordinances and regulations in force."
    Morgan v. District of Columbia, 468 A.2d 1306 (D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1983): Absent a special relationship, therefore, the police may not be held liable for failure to protect a particular individual from harm caused by criminal conduct. A special relationship exists if the police employ an individual in aid of law enforcement, but does not exist merely because an individual requests, or a police officer promises to provide protection

    Lynch v. N.C.Dept. of Justice, 376 S.E.2nd 247 (N.C.App. 1989). The North Carolina Court of Appeals held that: "the defendant law enforcement agencies and officers did not owe them (the children - ed.) any legal duty of care, the breach of which caused their injury and death...Our law is that in the absence of a special relationship, such as exists when a victim is in custody or the police have promised to protect a particular person, law enforcement agencies and personnel have no duty to protect the individuals from the criminal acts of others; instead their duty is to preserve the peace and arrest law breakers for the protection of the general public

    Bowers v. DeVito, 686 F.2d 61 (7th Cir. 1982). U.S. Court of Appeals, Seventh Circuit, held that:.. there is no Constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen. It is monstrous if the state fails to protect its residents against such predators but it does not violate the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment or, we suppose, any other provision of the Constitution. The Constitution is a charter of negative liberties: it tells the state to let the people alone; it does not require the federal government or the state to provide services, even so elementary a service as maintaining law and order

    Deshaney v. Winnebago County 489 U.S. 189 (1989). A State's failure to protect an individual against private violence generally does not constitute a violation of the Due Process Clause, because the Clause imposes no duty on the State to provide members of the general public with adequate protective services. The Clause is phrased as a limitation on the State's power to act, not as a guarantee of certain minimal levels of safety and security; while it forbids the State itself to deprive individuals of life, liberty, and property without due process of law, its language cannot fairly be read to impose an affirmative obligation on the State to ensure that those interests do not come to harm through other means.

    Castle Rock v. Gonzalez 545 U.S. 748 (2005). was a case decided by the Supreme Court of the United States, in which the court ruled, 7-2, that a town and its police department could not be sued under 42 U.S.C. §1983 for failing to enforce a restraining order, which had led to the murder of a woman's three children by her estranged husband.

    South v. Maryland, 59 U.S. (How.) 396, 15 L.Ed., 433 (856)].1856: the U.S. Supreme Court declared that local law enforcement had no duty to protect a particular person, but only a general duty to enforce the laws.

    Hartzer v. City of San Jose, App., 120 Cal.Rptr 5 (1975)]. The California Court of Appeal held that any claim against the police department: "is barred by the provisions of the California Tort Claims Act, particularly section 845, which states: Neither a public entity nor a public employee is liable for failure to establish a police department or otherwise provide police protection service or, if police protection service is provided, for failure to provide sufficient police protection

    Chapman v. City of Philadelphia, 434 A.2d 753 (Sup.Ct. Penn. 1981): The duty of the City of Philadelphia to provide police protection is a public one which may not be claimed by an individual unless a special relationship exists between the city and the individual. A special relationship is generally found to exist only in cases in which an individual is exposed to a special danger and the authorities have undertaken the responsibility to provide adequate protection for him...[The plaintiffs] urge this court to proclaim a sweeping duty of protection in the law of tort, far beyond anything any court or indeed our own State legislature has been willing to recognize.

    Davidson v. City of Westminster, 32 C.3d 197, 185 Cal.Rptr. 252, 649 P.2d 894 (S.Ct. Cal. 1982):a man stabbed Yolanda Davidson while she was using a laundromat. At the time of the stabbing, police officers had the laundromat under surveillance for the purpose of preventing assaults and apprehending the perpetrator of three stabbings that had occurred there or at nearby laundromats. Thus, the officers knew Davidson was in the laundromat. When the officers saw the man enter and leave the laundromat several times, they believed that he was the likely perpetrator of at least one of the prior assaults. Nevertheless, the officers did not warn Davidson, and she eventually was stabbed inside the laundromat. (Id. at p. 201.) The Supreme Court concluded the officers had no duty to warn or to otherwise protect Davidson

    To repeat: Have a plan, seek training for you, your family and friends. Thinking it won't happen to you--well, I certainly hope you are right...but you keep fire extinguishers and smoke alarms at home and wear your seatbelt when in a car, right? Are you planning on starting a fire in your house or having an automobile accident? I hope not. Know this: YOU don't get the time and place of the crime--the criminal gets 51% of the vote on the when and where. Know what's happening in your neighborhood...while the press isn't good for much, they attempt to let people know what criminal activity has been happening in your area. See the recent events I posted about in VA.
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  3. #2
    Member Array steffen's Avatar
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    Nice list. I'm working on adding links to each case. Should make an excellent post even better.
    -------------------------
    Edit: Here are links.
    Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)
    Warren v. District of Columbia - Google Scholar

    Riss v. City of New York, 22 N.Y.2d 579, 293 NYS2d 897, 240 N.E.2d 860 (N.Y. Ct. of Ap. 1958)
    Riss v. City of New York - Google Scholar

    Keane v. City of Chicago, 98 Ill. App.2d 460, 240 N.E.2d 321 (1968)
    Riss v. City of New York - Google Scholar

    Morgan v. District of Columbia, 468 A.2d 1306 (D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1983)
    Morgan v. District of Columbia - Google Scholar

    Lynch v. N.C.Dept. of Justice, 376 S.E.2nd 247 (N.C.App. 1989)
    Lynch v. N.C. Dept. of Justice - Google Scholar

    Bowers v. DeVito, 686 F.2d 61 (7th Cir. 1982)
    Bowers v. Devito - Google Scholar

    Deshaney v. Winnebago County 489 U.S. 189 (1989)
    Deshaney v. Winnebago County - Google Scholar

    Castle Rock v. Gonzalez 545 U.S. 748 (2005)
    Castle Rock v. Gonzalez - Google Scholar

    South v. Maryland, 59 U.S. (How.) 396, 15 L.Ed., 433 (856)].1856
    South v. Maryland - Google Scholar

    Hartzer v. City of San Jose, App., 120 Cal.Rptr 5 (1975)]
    Hartzler v. City of San Jose - Google Scholar

    Chapman v. City of Philadelphia, 434 A.2d 753 (Sup.Ct. Penn. 1981)
    Chapman v. City of Philadelphia - Google Scholar

    Davidson v. City of Westminster, 32 C.3d 197, 185 Cal.Rptr. 252, 649 P.2d 894 (S.Ct. Cal. 1982)
    Davidson v. City of Westminster - Google Scholar
    The problem with gun control is that drugs are already illegal.

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Who is responsible for your (and your family's) safety?

    Me.


    But the liberal thinks that by having more police, more government, more spending... that the government and it's agencies will protect him... Especially if we use those government agencies to take away all the bad gunzez.

    We all know that the courts have determined that the police and other agencies have no obligation to protect individuals... only the public at large.


    So... I'm gonna have to train harder now... 'Cause soon, I can only use 7 bullets in each gun... I'm thinking of asking Angelina Jolie to teach me all about curving bullets... and other stuff just like she did in WANTED, that ought to fix it... But I'm busy with Keanu Reeves right now... you know, "The ONE"... he's teaching me how to duck curved bullets... Between the two of them I'll be ready for the Leopards... oh wait, that's another thread.
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    All that said....
    It could be worse.
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    VIP Member Array JDE101's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting. I "copied" your list and am going to email it to a couple of people I know who think people don't need "high capacity 'clips'" or "assault" weapons to defend themselves because that is the job of the police!!!! Most of the people I know are pro 2A and pro concealed carry, but there are a couple I know who are mentally still stuck in the 60s "peace and love" mindset!
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    Saw a thing on the news about home invasions the other night. Their advice was..."The best thing you can do is hide and call the police."
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  7. #6
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsMyRight2 View Post
    Saw a thing on the news about home invasions the other night. Their advice was..."The best thing you can do is hide and call the police."

    Yes, and they are right.... but they forgot step two... Hide in your safe room with an assault weapon, or shotgun pointed at the door... call the police.... If anyone comes through before the police arrive and you confirm their presence... Shoot to stop the threat.
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
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    Member Array fredg53's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsMyRight2 View Post
    Saw a thing on the news about home invasions the other night. Their advice was..."The best thing you can do is hide and call the police."
    OP good post. And this OMG and people really buy this crap Ok I am going to hide under the bed that is just pathetic. I woud love to see statistics as to how the burry your head in the sand method works out. UGH

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    Member Array steffen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Yes, and they are right.... but they forgot step two... Hide in your safe room with an assault weapon, or shotgun pointed at the door... call the police.... If anyone comes through before the police arrive and you confirm their presence... Shoot to stop the threat.
    By assault weapon do you mean a magazine fed, semi automatic rifle? Because I might have a hard time keeping an extra M60 in my safe room.
    The problem with gun control is that drugs are already illegal.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steffen View Post
    By assault weapon do you mean a magazine fed, semi automatic rifle? Because I might have a hard time keeping an extra M60 in my safe room.
    Speaking from their perspective... an assault weapon is any real firearm capable of doing more damage than a nerf pistol.

    Oh, and extra? Nah.. the ONE you have should be sufficient.
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    All that said....
    It could be worse.
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    Distinguished Member Array Exacto's Avatar
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    It took the police 20 minutes to get to sandy hook. If you want to wait for them, wait. When they get there they can count how many are dead and start their investigation. You are responsible for your safety and the safety of your family. The police are under no obligation to provide security for you.
    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunder bolt...... Sun Tzu.

    The supreme art of war is to defeat the enemy without fighting........ Sun Tzu.

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    No if and or buts...the bucks starts and ends with me. God has the ultimate protection, but He has given me the day-to-day responsibility to care for my family not just with protection but also provision as well.
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    Me and my family. Nuff said
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