Background checks - what's the big deal

Background checks - what's the big deal

This is a discussion on Background checks - what's the big deal within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Folks, I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest. I just do not understand the hooplah about background checks. Maybe I just don't know ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array rangefinder's Avatar
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    Background checks - what's the big deal

    Folks, I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest. I just do not understand the hooplah about background checks. Maybe I just don't know the whole story. So let me put forth what I understand and folks please be kind if I need correction.

    I don't want Mr. Felon, Mr. Serial-Killer, Mr. Wacko to have possession of a gun. These folks are bad news for all concerned.

    As I understand the process now Mr. Gunbuyer goes to the FFL/LGS. The FFL/LGS call NICS and get an answer - BUY or NO-Buy. I don't have a problem with this. If this is the background check I think this is good. In TX there is no waiting period. I don't believe in waiting periods.

    Is the background check being proposed more than just a BUY or NO-Buy?

    I cannot remember the last time I underwent a background check for purchase. I received my CHL in 1997 and renewed on average at 4 year intervals. Therefore, in TX, I show my CHL and pay for my gun. I do realize that CHLs are checked more thoroughly than regular purchasers (criminal, health and financial).
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    VIP Member Array lionround's Avatar
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    RF, I live in El Paso for 6 years. Love West Texas.

    That said, if the background checks are no more involved than what you say, then I too don't have a problem with them.
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    Some thoughts: Private Sales Restrictions and Gun Registration @ NRA.org; and Why "Universal" Checks Won't Work @ NRA.org.

    Here was a good discussion back in mid-January: Who Disagrees with universal background checks?

    Basically, those refusing to learn from history are bound to repeat it. And history's replete with examples of governments disarming populations prior to committing predation against them. The several states here in the USA were created with a core set of foundation principles, among which were the acknowledged preexisting rights to life and liberty, the right to speak and associate as we chose, the right to be safe in our persons and effects, and the right to remain armed.

    ALL of this is under threat, if once the governing few disarm the People, since at that point no person would have the effective ability to defend himself. THAT is what's so important about all of this, the threat of permanent loss of liberty. Once we allow the ability to defend ourselves to be stripped from us, there's little to stop us becoming one more example on the road of preyed-upon people in this world. THAT is why we're all putting up such a fight against the predators.
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    Member Array krisspy's Avatar
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    This is precisely why I think we're doomed and UBC will become a reality -- so many in the gun community don't understand the ramifications and still think it's a good idea. Nevermind John and Jane Public and anyone on the outside. They hear "universal background checks" and they automatically think that sounds like a great idea. If the gun community is still this divided on the subject, how do we have any chance of defeating this?

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    I have to jump in here again. I am NOT in favour of registration. I thought the current NICS check was simply to see if you have a criminal record.

    I thought if someone wanted to buy a rife, shotgun, pistol the NICS was just good guy or bad guy. I did not realize that registration was part of the NICS.

    So what would keep the criminal, serial-killer, etc. from purchasing or otherwise obtaining a weapon? I'd rather a bad guy not get a weapon as opposed to me having to use my weapon to stop a tragedy.
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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Plain language:
    Licensed dealers are more restricted than private sellers in all other types of transactions, same should hold true with guns and private sellers.
    Wrt the actual checks, Congress refuses to fund the NICS system and 40 states refuse to relay the necessary info to the Fed gov't for the system to be effective as it is. If the system is expanded, it will be overwhelmed and will crash and burn thus rendering the entire country unable to purchase firearms.
    Before restricting us more, the gov't must provide the means for the current system to be effective. It's the same thing again and again - bureaucrats pass laws, hamstring those laws in practice, then pass more law to justify their existence citing the failure of previous, unenforced laws.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangefinder View Post
    I have to jump in here again. I am NOT in favour of registration. I thought the current NICS check was simply to see if you have a criminal record.

    I thought if someone wanted to buy a rife, shotgun, pistol the NICS was just good guy or bad guy. I did not realize that registration was part of the NICS.

    So what would keep the criminal, serial-killer, etc. from purchasing or otherwise obtaining a weapon? I'd rather a bad guy not get a weapon as opposed to me having to use my weapon to stop a tragedy.
    Registration is not supposed to be part of the NICS. The gun grabbers are pushing this 'universal background check' system in conjunction with a registry because they want the public to believe that the only way to be sure guns don't get distributed illegally will be to make every gun owner accountable for their firearms. Obviously, without their 'registry' they can't track accountability.

    Remember something here, criminals don't buy guns legally. They buy them off the street, they steal them and they even get them from the ATF on occasion; what they don't do is go through the legal channels that law abiding gun owners do. These sorts of laws are the precursor to gun confiscation and there is plenty of historical precedent for that statement. Laws do not apply to criminals; if they did, we'd just need to make murder and violent crime illegal and the problem would be solved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangefinder View Post
    I have to jump in here again. I am NOT in favour of registration. I thought the current NICS check was simply to see if you have a criminal record.

    I thought if someone wanted to buy a rife, shotgun, pistol the NICS was just good guy or bad guy. I did not realize that registration was part of the NICS.

    So what would keep the criminal, serial-killer, etc. from purchasing or otherwise obtaining a weapon? I'd rather a bad guy not get a weapon as opposed to me having to use my weapon to stop a tragedy.

    The problem is that Universal Background Checks simply will not work without complete gun registration.
    If the feds don't know about who has what guns, there's no way to enforce the UBC's... they go hand in hand or UBC's fail miserably.

    The anti-gunners make UBC's sound so benign and label the concept as "common sense", but at its heart it is no more than an attempt to sneak in mandatory gun registration in order to make UBC's work.
    Now if they want to close that "gun show loophole" they keep citing as the evil cause of gun violence, then they should suggest background checks for ALL gun show purchase... not just the FFL transactions that already require them, and leave private, non-gun show sales alone, but that would not serve their total gun control agenda.
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    UBC also requires checks on private sales and inheritence. Along with this, they want to add an additional fee to "help cover the cost of an extended nics system". Its essentially a way to further tax the citizenry and one step closer to registration and confiscation.

    As always, it only affects the law-abiding citizen, not the criminal.

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    Senior Member Array Cokeman's Avatar
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    Give them something and they will want something else and then something else until they take your guns.
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    Another problem I have is that none other than our nation's leading tactical guru, VP Joe Biden, has admitted that "they don't have time to prosecute those who lie on their form 4473." Now, if they can't/won't enforce current laws, why on earth should I support the enactment of a new law?

    Demonstrate to me that the Federal government is serious about competently enforcing existing law (and not in a PC manner.) That's common sense.
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    Background checks - what's the big deal

    You would no longer be able to give a gun to your son, daughter, spouse or inherit one from your parents without going through the hassle of FFL.

    One of the states is proposing annual home search of your firearms to go along with UBC.

    As has been mentioned, it is useless without traceability. Hence they would need your S/N s.


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    While I have no problem with the background check provided by my carry permit allowing me to purchase. I simply think all these side issues with gun regulations are rat holes. The real method of stopping violence of all types is eliminating gun free zones and allowing as many legal citizens to own, train and carry as possible with local programs, classes and supporting shoot sports, and other activities in a much more positive light. Do that and stop recycling criminals onto the street. Stop plea bargains, go for the full conviction of criminals and put them away. We spend way too much time talking about beefing up police, arming designated teachers and guards and stupid solutions when the one single thing that works is ignored. By the way I think more people died from the bare human fist last year than rifles, and pretty sure knife deaths are many times more than guns. Lets have background checks for fists and knives. Sorry I support basic background checks to carry but tracking every purchase is nothing more than back door registration. Remember if they want to access that information it would not be impossible to use the forms people fill out buying guns, as an actual record when confiscating. I hope that's far fetched but possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cokeman View Post
    Give them something and they will want something else and then something else until they take your guns.
    Hehehe.. when I read this all I could think of was "Give a mouse a cookie and he'll want a glass of milk" :)
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    It's yet another hurdle for a law-abiding citizen to endure which a criminal will never submit to.
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