I am not a conspiracy theorist...

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    I am not a conspiracy theorist...

    ....But I'm really beginning to wonder.

    And I don't mean this to be political, both reds and blues have put us in this debacle. So it isn't party political, by any stretch. Geopolitical, maybe...

    But really, I'm looking at this from a practical standpoint. Where the rubber meets the road... what should we, as a nation be doing about this..?

    According to many in the current gov't, not administration, we are soon to have a "hollow" army...untrained because of cuts due to the sequester. And those same voices have said this is a matter of national security.

    According to many others in gov't. We will have to start furloughing police. Wasn't it Detroit who handed all the cadets their pink slips on graduation from the academy a while back? Can we expect more of the same?

    There's a move afoot to ban all "weapons designed for the battlefield" from the hands of law abiding, ethical citizens. This is being done at the Federal gov't and at state levels.

    So, our military will be weaker, putting our nation at risk abroad and at home.
    So, police won't be able to protect the citizenry they serve.
    So, the citizenry (militia) will also be ill prepared to protect themselves or their country.


    How long before we (the gov't) turn over "security" to the blue helmets? We know they're incompetent.

    But America is financially/morally/patriotically weakening. We haven't the national will to stand for ourselves anymore... and we won't pay the price to do so... but we all have flat screen tv, 2 cars in the garage, more food every day than many eat in a week... more square feet in one room in our homes than many have in their whole house.

    The greatest generation limited themselves to 4 gallons of gas a week under rationing in WWII, no rubber, little tin, no aluminum, meat was rationed, food was rationed.. All for the war effort.

    We are in a battle to save our country... For those of us here, a great deal of that revolves around the Second Amendment. For others out in the world, it seems to mean,"Eh, I got all I need today, but I really would like another tablet computer/i phone/game console/what have you."

    We won't give up anything, yet we want everything... And once the second amendment falls (further), we will have little means to protect ourselves, let alone the other rights enshrined in the Constitution.

    Mods, if this is too political, remove it. I'm not trying to be political, I'm looking for answers.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    You know what bugs me? A while back I made a comment about how the govenrment keeps many people employed and thusly tax-paying members of our economy, and I was virtually ripped apart and told it's not the government's duty to provide jobs at taxpayers' expense.

    Now the government is forced into cutbacks--reducing paychecks and giving fuloughs, etc.--and it seems everyone is in an uproar. Oh, how the pendulum swings.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    You know what bugs me? A while back I made a comment about how the govenrment keeps many people employed and thusly tax-paying members of our economy, and I was virtually ripped apart and told it's not the government's duty to provide jobs at taxpayers' expense.

    Now the government is forced into cutbacks--reducing paychecks and giving fuloughs, etc.--and it seems everyone is in an uproar. Oh, how the pendulum swings.
    Oh, OV, I agree. Lots of folks on the gov't payroll... many who work feverishly, many who don't... But it certainly seems that the population of govt workers has out grown our ability to pay them... with higher taxes, a larger tax base, and more things taxed.. That's what I don't get...

    Roads are falling apart, we pay more tax through gas purchases.
    Schools are falling apart, with fewer kids to teach per family... and more families paying property tax at higher rates on bigger houses.
    Sales taxes are higher around the nation
    Income taxes are higher at state and federal level...

    We have less services, provided by more people; working for the govt. And we pay more to support the work... And there are more of us paying... something isn't right... where's the money going?

    And why are we soon to be completely unable to defend ourselves, through our military, our police, and our own selves with arms?
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  5. #4
    Senior Member Array SigPapa226's Avatar
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    Here is where we are going with this: "Marxism in America" by Lt. Gen. (Ret.) W.G. Boykin - OAK

    See more: "Marxism in America" by Lt. Gen. (Ret.) W.G. Boykin - OAK - YouTube
    buckfynn likes this.
    Ten Bears: It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men.

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    Here's my take in a nutshell. The masses have asked the government to "fix" every little problem and the government has obliged, most often by borrowing from the future, to the degree that the Fed buys debt directly from the Treasury now without it ever going to the open market. The entire system is now a great big Ponzi scheme and it is getting tougher and tougher yet for the government to borrow. Something has to give, sooner now than later, and it won't be government's appetite for power. The push to disarm the population has to do with making sure that when the system collapses on itself that those in power retain it.

    There is no logic that supports doing anything but freezing government spending in total and hope to God that the economy can grow out of it. This would in the short-run cause a reduction in standards of living, both here and in Europe. Because this reset is unthinkable to most, we will keep kicking the can down the road until the costs of fixing it are so bad that we will welcome a dictator. History has shown this to be the case, and we are incapable as a nation to learn from it.

    I pray that I am wrong, but I believe we need to start preparing for the worst.
    "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." ~ P. J. O'Rourke

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    You know what bugs me? A while back I made a comment about how the govenrment keeps many people employed and thusly tax-paying members of our economy, and I was virtually ripped apart and told it's not the government's duty to provide jobs at taxpayers' expense.

    Now the government is forced into cutbacks--reducing paychecks and giving fuloughs, etc.--and it seems everyone is in an uproar. Oh, how the pendulum swings.
    It did not swing for me.....military budget can be slashed without hurting national defense, the governments job is not to provide jobs to folks just for the reason of giving folks jobs. We should not be keeping military bases open just so the local mom and pop store can stay in business.

    As far as the sequester and how it is affecting military families...a lady was irate because they are not sending her hubbies ship out when it was scheduled to and they were counting on the extra money. Well, whah......that is just too bad you budget your life on things other than base pay and housing allowance.

    The governments job is to handle the budget. If they need to hire someone becuase it is a need and the best economicall and reasonable thing to do then that is what they do. But it is not the "DUTY" of the govenemtn to employ people. Do we really need the IRS as large as it is? Do we really need all of the DoD programs? Do we really need the Department of Education at all? I worked within DoD an OGA's the better part of my carreer and I swear that the amount of Federal workers can be slashed significantly.

    At the local level I can tell you fro my experience that little towns in norther NH do not need the amount of LE that each town keeps asking for.

    Federal jobs are a drain on the economy now and into the future. All of these jobs will require pensions. Where the heck does that money come from? Oh yeah, tax the rich.....that seems to be the only answer.

    How about 24 months or whatever folks get for unemployment....that is a from of a paycheck the government gives people for not working! My solution is if unemployment or welfare is say 2K a month. They need to work at McD's or picking up trash. If that gives them 600 bucks a month then the government can chip in the difference.

    More things on Federal spending. Post 9/11 GI bill.....that is a benefit that comes from being in the military. An E-4 with 36 months gets the same benefits as a CSM with 23 years. Don't ya think that benefits should be sorta proportional to the amount of service one does? Any idea how much money the gov is forking oout for the post 9/11 GI bill? In fact, I know a bunch of folks that go to University of Phoenix one night a week soloey to get the BAH. They don't even care about the education part.

    Rant off.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    We as a nation are so ill informed about how our Govt. spends our money. There is zero accountability to the citizenry and no one seems to care.
    Waste of resources is at a plague level: Not just Govt. waste , but waste by almost everyone in this country.
    The Govt. gives billions and billions of our hard earned dollars to over 100 other countries. This money supports absolutely nothing that benefits "We the People".
    The "people of this nation" give billions and billions of their hard earned dollars to buy all kinds of nonessential items from other countries ( mainly China ) which grows their economic power and destroys our economy.

    This country as a whole is teetering on the brink of collapse and most citizens have no idea how close they are to losing all that they think they have, such as liberty, food, water and security.

    No Constitutional republic or democracy as ever lasted more than 300+ years. And ours will go the same way, down.

    America this is our most desperate hour! Wake up, reality is knocking and it will drag us to the gates of hell if we do not act.
    DVido, RickyD, Ghost1958 and 6 others like this.
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    Senior Member Array SigPapa226's Avatar
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    We gave Egypt F-16s and Abrams Tanks just a month ago. Now Kerry just gave them $250 Million in aid. This is sequester?

    What is going on in this country?
    Ten Bears: It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men.

  10. #9
    Distinguished Member Array DontTreadOnI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    We have less services, provided by more people; working for the govt. And we pay more to support the work... And there are more of us paying... something isn't right... where's the money going?
    Why, it's being redistributed of course!
    If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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    We're being softened and fattened up for the kill, no doubt.

    Crush the economy from one end with the overwhelming burden of the new healthcare system. Open the floodgates of spending with unlimited unemployment benefits and free cell phones. Discourage job seekers with tax increases, making it more beneficial to stay unemployed. Choke the economy from the other end, and firmly embed our dependence on foreign oil by stifling our ability to access our own coal and oil resources. Gut the military, disarm the population and then wait for it all to come crashing down.

    The fix is in. Things are moving much quicker than I had anticipated. Will we still be the United States of America 4 years from now?
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    I am not a conspiracy theorist...

    ....But I'm really beginning to wonder.

    Most of us have been wondering for quite a long time, now.

    IMO, it's not "conspiracy" theory: it's merely connecting the dots, "dots" that are there for all to see. At some point, that narrowing, thinning, weakening path we're on is going to crumble, and in many ways we might well not be able to do a single effective, coordinated thing about it.

    My suggestions for a viable, long-term plan that could help slow (or even possibly reverse) much of this damage:

    • Stop being the world's policeman.
    • Stop being the world's bread basket.
    • Stop funding other societies to within an inch of our breaking point.
    • Stop criminalizing a heavily-armed citizenry.
    • Heavily support education.
    • Revamp basic medical coverage to be a simple (rationed) list of essential and preventive procedures that cover everyone, with items beyond that being covered/insured by the individual. Highly controversial, sure, I don't see many other ways to sidestep the "medical" bomb we're crafting for ourselves.
    • Do everything to support beefing up of local community policing, fire, medical resources.
    • Heavily support protection of our own shores.
    • Heavily support the idea of a 2yr stint in military service for our young adults immediately upon completion of high school, if not outright requiring it.
    • Release centralized vacuuming-up of our financial resources and return it to local control (via vastly reduced spending/taxation at the federal level).
    • Revamp taxation -- Am not a tax person, myself, so I can't imagine what would be best, here. But I'd bet going to a ~5% fed and ~5-7% local/state tax base and a similar company/corporate rate (without exceptions) would do much. IMO, there's no reason the tax code need be any longer than a page or two of text. (Of course, there's that little niggling problem of the national debt bomb, and what to do with the millions of tax folks who'd be looking for alternatives.)
    • Go back to our Constitutional roots, including gutting the bulk of the questionable (and outright unconstitutional) statutes on the books, replacing them with a few choice, well-worded, iron-fisted alternatives with heavy penalties on persons daring to promote/implement/execute such circumvention in future ... and enforce it, with on-the-case citizen oversight in each and every case of violations being charged.
    • Bring back execution in the public square for heinous crimes.
    • Bring back floggings and tarring/feathering for public hirelings who abuse their welcome.


    That would be a good start, IMO.
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  13. #12
    Member Array Boudin's Avatar
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    "What is going on in this country?"

    5% of citizens preparing to go to war.
    45% blissfully ignorant charging up their credit cards and watching desparate housewives.
    50% helplessly waiting on their check from the government, watching desparate housewives.

    Every day more sliding from column 2 to column 3, encouraged by the federal government. It's a situation that can't sustain itself. Bad times ahead.
    RickyD, msgt/ret, airslot and 4 others like this.

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    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    The sequester is not the issue. Budget outlays will actually go up with the sequester in place. Not one single department of the federal government is going to get less money in 2013 than it did in 2012. The sequester merely reduces the amount of standard built-in increases in those budgets.

    However, government stills spends way too much and way more than it takes in;so that part of the problem still exists. the sequester will do little to nothing about it.
    DVido, msgt/ret, mcp1810 and 2 others like this.

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    Member Array latentcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Most of us have been wondering for quite a long time, now.

    IMO, it's not "conspiracy" theory: it's merely connecting the dots, "dots" that are there for all to see. At some point, that narrowing, thinning, weakening path we're on is going to crumble, and in many ways we might well not be able to do a single effective, coordinated thing about it.

    My suggestions for a viable, long-term plan that could help slow (or even possibly reverse) much of this dama

    • Stop being the world's policeman.
    • Stop being the world's bread basket.
    • Stop funding other societies to within an inch of our breaking point.
    • Stop criminalizing a heavily-armed citizenry.
    • Heavily support education.
    • Revamp basic medical coverage to be a simple (rationed) list of essential and preventive procedures that cover everyone, with items beyond that being covered/insured by the individual. Highly controversial, sure, I don't see many other ways to sidestep the "medical" bomb we're crafting for ourselves.
    • Do everything to support beefing up of local community policing, fire, medical resources.
    • Heavily support protection of our own shores.
    • Heavily support the idea of a 2yr stint in military service for our young adults immediately upon completion of high school, if not outright requiring it.
    • Release centralized vacuuming-up of our financial resources and return it to local control (via vastly reduced spending/taxation at the federal level).
    • Revamp taxation -- Am not a tax person, myself, so I can't imagine what would be best, here. But I'd bet going to a ~5% fed and ~5-7% local/state tax base and a similar company/corporate rate (without exceptions) would do much. IMO, there's no reason the tax code need be any longer than a page or two of text. (Of course, there's that little niggling problem of the national debt bomb, and what to do with the millions of tax folks who'd be looking for alternatives.)
    • Go back to our Constitutional roots, including gutting the bulk of the questionable (and outright unconstitutional) statutes on the books, replacing them with a few choice, well-worded, iron-fisted alternatives with heavy penalties on persons daring to promote/implement/execute such circumvention in future ... and enforce it, with on-the-case citizen oversight in each and every case of violations being charged.
    • Bring back execution in the public square for heinous crimes.
    • Bring back floggings and tarring/feathering for public hirelings who abuse their welcome.


    That would be a good start, IMO.
    My dad was a WW2 vet. He served on a subchaser SC 743 until late 1944.

    He told me this story shortly before he passed away

    Christmas eve 1944, Arawae New Briton:

    We had shot everything we had, we were the last thing afloat, on fire and sinking, the Captain had told us to abandon ship but there was no place to go. As the squadron of Vals started another run on us I looked at the flag still there and I was proud that I had done my part. I'm still here because the Japanese commander saluted us as he flew by and simply flew away.

    Their generation saved our nation, we should be ashamed at what our generation did with the gift.

  16. #15
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    None of you who posted above will believe me, but we are in far better shape than almost
    anyone thinks. What we have is a dysfunctional political system incapable of making
    sound decisions--- and we have had that and muddled through since 1789. And we have had that
    and fought it through as well. Politics has never been pretty in this nation of ours.

    Folks are moaning and groaning precisely because they are spoiled silly---yup, the folks above
    who moaned and groaned. Lots of folks complain about over sized government though it is
    at the civilian level at record lows on a per national capita basis. Productivity has increased tremendously
    due to technology. And that goes for everything from treating the sick to capturing the BGs, to
    keeping track of dollars.

    On defense--- even cut in half we would be stronger than any possible combination of adversaries and everyone
    knows that. Moreover, most folks remember what Ike said only when their ox isn't the one being gored.

    We do presently have an income inequality issue that is approaching severe. Well, it took 40 years
    to get this way, two full generations, and we WERE warned. We were warned about the "big sucking sound" in the
    early 90s; and no one listened.

    In a country our size there will always be down and outs, and there will always be huge winner, and
    also always lots of whiners. I'm sick of listening to the whining and the scared. These are the folks who forget
    who put all those satellites up in orbit to drive your GPS and your TV, and maybe even your satellite phone.
    These are the folks who forget whose tax dollars built the highway system and lots more.
    That we would have no MRI, no PET scans, no CAT scans and no fiber -optic scopes if not for
    the work done by Uncle.

    We had some bad luck; 911, Katrina, massive financial malfeasance by the private sector (THEFT in plain English)
    and we are feeling some of the pinch. Tough. We need to suck it up and stop pointing fingers and
    conjuring up conspiracies. Those thoughts help nothing and fix nothing.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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