Guns Confiscated After Reading The Constitution at a Tax Dispute Assembly

Guns Confiscated After Reading The Constitution at a Tax Dispute Assembly

This is a discussion on Guns Confiscated After Reading The Constitution at a Tax Dispute Assembly within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; This NJ woman was charged with making "terroristic threats" and was "coerced" into handing over her guns after she read the Constitution at a tax ...

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Thread: Guns Confiscated After Reading The Constitution at a Tax Dispute Assembly

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array 1MoreGoodGuy's Avatar
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    Guns Confiscated After Reading The Constitution at a Tax Dispute Assembly

    This NJ woman was charged with making "terroristic threats" and was "coerced" into handing over her guns after she read the Constitution at a tax dispute assembly. After the assembly a representative from the appraisal company followed the NJ woman to her car. The representative claims in a statement to the police that NJ woman said she was going to return with a gun. While in custody, the police sergeant told the NJ woman that if she didn't turn in her guns that her bail would be set prohibitively high.

    Why didn't the police try to get a warrant to search her home for guns? If I was this woman, I would have told them "no warrant, no guns." If this happened to you, would you have voluntarily handed in your guns?


    Here s the story:


    NJ MOTHER PRESSURED TO TURN OVER HER GUNS, CHARGED WITH ‘TERRORISTIC THREATS’ AFTER READING THE CONSTITUTION AT TAX DISPUTE ASSEMBLY
    Mar. 12, 2013 4:15pm Erica Ritz

    ​Key Points:

    Eileen Hart objected to a state re-evaluation of her property value that would drastically increase her tax rates
    She read the Constitution at a tax dispute forum and called one of the appraisers a “pencil-pusher”
    One of tax officials called 911 saying Hart threatened to return with a gun, but she unequivocally denies the claim
    Hart was charged with making “terroristic threats” and told that if she didn’t turn over her weapons, her bail would be prohibitively high and it was unclear how long she would have to remain in jail


    A New Jersey mother was arrested and told to turn over her guns after reading the Constitution and peacefully protesting at a tax dispute forum, she says...

    Read the rest of the story on TheBlaze: NJ Mother Pressured to Turn Over Her Guns, Charged With ?Terroristic Threats? After Reading the Constitution at Tax Dispute Assembly | TheBlaze.com
    Regards,
    1MoreGoodGuy
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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Brings up an interesting question about how one would guard against such claims/accusations if they were to occur. Unknown if that's what they were, in this case.

    If such a meeting were videotaped, I can see such tapes going missing.

    If one were to come to such a meeting with a personal recorder but be subsequently arrested on the scene, I can see such a recorder going missing.

    If one comes without any such recorder and things go sideways with mere accusations, with a he-said / she-said situation it could get tough to withstand the pressure brought to bear by "the system."

    Things to think about, when we're out and about. Know the enemy. Take reasonable precautions. Remain responsible, reasonable and circumspect in our dealings with others, 'cause you never know what's possible.
    IsaiahM33 and Jeanlouise like this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Who writes these sensasionlist headlines? It makes it sound like the reason she was charged with terroristic threats and pressured to turn over her guns was because she read the COnstitution. Not even close.

    Anyway....back to the story. She was arrested becuasse of the accusation that she was going to come back with a gun. Seems like a he said she said at this point. Also, just one side of a story again. I do no know tha laws about bailment and procedures so I don't know if that is also true about bail be set lower if the charge is weapons related or the charge given to her.

    About the warrant: Nowhere does it say anything about them asking to come in or search for anything. Direct qoute:
    Much to her surprise, Hart returned home to numerous police cars, the officers asking if they could bring her in for questioning even though they did not have a warrant.
    We must have read two different stories LOL.
    Hopyard and Tzadik like this.
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    Other side maybe-- when you act out at a public hearing, threaten people hired to do a job,
    and are arrested, conditions for your release are set; usually by a judge or magistrate. Then, your
    bondsman may have his own ideas as well.

    None of us were there, don't know her demeanor at the time, but there may be good reason to believe her
    unstable.

    There are right and wrong ways to express your displeasure at hearings of this nature.

    Personal threats are personal threats regardless of circumstances and are unlawful.

    I see nothing wrong with the demand that she turn over her guns in exchange for release on bond.

    Also, "bail was prohibitively high." Duh, that's part of the game. Its the judge's call not hers.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Brings up an interesting question about how one would guard against such claims/accusations if they were to occur. Unknown if that's what they were, in this case.

    If such a meeting were videotaped, I can see such tapes going missing.

    If one were to come to such a meeting with a personal recorder but be subsequently arrested on the scene, I can see such a recorder going missing.

    If one comes without any such recorder and things go sideways with mere accusations, with a he-said / she-said situation it could get tough to withstand the pressure brought to bear by "the system."

    Things to think about, when we're out and about. Know the enemy. Take reasonable precautions. Remain responsible, reasonable and circumspect in our dealings with others, 'cause you never know what's possible.
    There simply is not enough information in the article to determine who was over-reacting.

    I have seen many people get extremely upset at their tax bill, to the point of threatening.. Heck, I had a guy threaten bodily harm to me over 5 cents at the gas station...

    Most assessors offices I know of (whether they use third party appraisers or not) have the right, and use it, to estimate value if they are not allowed to enter the premises. They usually over estimate by a great deal, in order to "legally coerce" being allowed entry.

    Unfortunately, in this country, you don't actually own your property... the state can take it at ay time.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    There simply is not enough information in the article to determine who was over-reacting.
    Correct.

    Hence, about the only thing we can think about is how to guard against such situations in our own lives.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    Senior Member Array IsaiahM33's Avatar
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    Turning over your guns to be released on bond sounds reasonable??? Where have we gone...........
    Ghost1958 and msgt/ret like this.
    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

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    I have no idea what possesses some people to respond in such a manner.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
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    Everything here in NJ can be considdered a Terroristic Threat......even flashing someone the bird is an arrest.
    Then they come for your belongings......

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    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Correct.

    Hence, about the only thing we can think about is how to guard against such situations in our own lives.
    Modern smart phones can function as personal recorders and are essentially 'hidden in plain sight' because of their ubiquitious nature.
    oneshot and noway2 like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xXxplosive View Post
    Everything here in NJ can be considdered a Terroristic Threat......even flashing someone the bird is an arrest.
    Then they come for your belongings......
    The SCOTUS has ruled that an expression of free speech.
    Hopyard and Hoganbeg like this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    Certainly there are consequences of speaking one's mind, but they should not be different based on who is hearing the speaking. The fact that a government employee can get the police to come to coerce her to surrender her guns simply on "he said, she said" is ludicrous.
    "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." ~ P. J. O'Rourke

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    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    Not much information to go on. It sounds like the police are over-reacting based on hear-say.

    If this is true, it could be used by anti's to disarm many people. Simply make an allegation that you were threatened by someone they think owns guns and the cops show up and disram them.
    Jeanlouise likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phreddy View Post
    Not much information to go on. It sounds like the police are over-reacting based on hear-say.

    If this is true, it could be used by anti's to disarm many people. Simply make an allegation that you were threatened by someone they think owns guns and the cops show up and disram them.
    Just for the counter point-- it might be based on more than hearsay. Her behavior at the hearing
    could speak to the possible veracity of the alleged threat.

    I've had a little to do with property appraisers; 20 years ago I had to hire a lawyer and it took
    me 10 years of lower property taxes to recoup my legal expenses but they didn't get away with their
    nonsensical appraisal and appeals procedures which made appealing almost impossible.

    Just a few months ago that same town's appraisal contractor --probably a new one who knew nothing
    of the past events-- was very very easy to deal with. She cut one appraisal by 90% and basically
    volunteered to cut another one about 10%. No need to go to a formal hearing, no need to hire a lawyer, no
    need to sue the town, this time around.

    The thing though, is in each instance I had evidence that the appraisal was
    erroneous. You can't just show up and say "its wrong, you can't do this to me, its against the constitution,
    and expect anyone to listen to you." You need to be able to explain why the appraisal is wrong and
    if at all possible, bring evidence.

    I can well understand someone getting very very upset about an erroneous or unjust appraisal, but
    frankly disrupting a meeting by standing there and attempting to read the constitution instead of
    properly arguing the reasons why the appraisal is erroneous, makes no sense. It is a lousy tactic
    and one that is almost a guaranteed fail.

    Just from the tiny bit we do have on that aspect of disrupting the hearing I call "nuts," and not sane enough in terms of
    common sense judgment to keep 'em.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    VIP Member Array 1MoreGoodGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Who writes these sensasionlist headlines? It makes it sound like the reason she was charged with terroristic threats and pressured to turn over her guns was because she read the COnstitution. Not even close.

    Anyway....back to the story. She was arrested becuasse of the accusation that she was going to come back with a gun. Seems like a he said she said at this point. Also, just one side of a story again. I do no know tha laws about bailment and procedures so I don't know if that is also true about bail be set lower if the charge is weapons related or the charge given to her.

    About the warrant: Nowhere does it say anything about them asking to come in or search for anything. Direct qoute:

    Much to her surprise, Hart returned home to numerous police cars, the officers asking if they could bring her in for questioning even though they did not have a warrant.

    We must have read two different stories LOL.
    Here is the direct quote:

    ...police handcuffed her to a chair and charged her with “terroristic threats.”...After trying to “coerce” her into making a statement along the lines of “what he thinks happened,” Hart said the police sergeant informed her that if she didn’t turn over her firearms for “safe keeping,” her bail would be set prohibitively high and it was unclear how long she would have to remain in custody.

    She was taken into custody at her home and they transported her to the Police Station and handcuffed her to a chair. She was arrested and charged and then according to her, the sergeant tried to "coerce" here into make a statement. The sergeant also implied that if she didn't voluntarily turn over her firearms she might not be released on her own recognizance and bail might be set prohibitively high...in other words, give us your guns or we will lock you up and we will tell the judge that you are not cooperating so that they can set a really high bail.

    The article then says, Hart turned over her two firearms and associated equipment, and was told that she’ll get them back “when this is all over.”

    If she was at the Police Station handcuffed to a chair and the guns were inside her house, how was the process of turning over the firearms handled? Did they take her to her house while she was in custody so that she could give them her guns? Since the sergeant implied that she wouldn't be let go until the guns were turned over to the police, the police must have been with her when the guns were taken from her home unless the husband brought the guns to the Police Station but that might be unlikely since the article stated "Hart turned over her two firearms..." and not her husband turned over her two firearms.

    I thought the "Constitution" headline was a bit silly too but I used it in the thread title for easy identification so we don't get a duplicate thread.
    Regards,
    1MoreGoodGuy
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