YES!!!! Senate votes 53-46 to STOP US from joining UN Arms Trade Treaty - Page 5

YES!!!! Senate votes 53-46 to STOP US from joining UN Arms Trade Treaty

This is a discussion on YES!!!! Senate votes 53-46 to STOP US from joining UN Arms Trade Treaty within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by suntzu How eloquont. Still don't see how a nay vote that we are talking about amounts to treason. What is the US ...

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Thread: YES!!!! Senate votes 53-46 to STOP US from joining UN Arms Trade Treaty

  1. #61
    VIP Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    How eloquont. Still don't see how a nay vote that we are talking about amounts to treason. What is the US law on treason?
    It wouldn't.

    Here you are: 18 U.S.C. § 2381 : US Code - Section 2381: Treason

    "Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war
    against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and
    comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason
    and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five
    years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and
    shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."

    Do note that the death penalty isn't the only possible punishment.

    Voting in The Senate either way is not treason. Moreover, law makers
    have considerable immunity from prosecution and civil suits for what they say on The House or Senate Floor
    and for how they vote--- after all they are there to vote what they think is best for their constituents
    and that vote can be criticized but not reviewed by a court, or punished by The Executive Branch.

    Moreover--Even if the vote be "treason," they are immune from arrest while Congress is in session.

    And more-- 18 U.S.C. § 2382 : US Code - Section 2382: Misprision of treason

    " Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States and having
    knowledge of the commission of any treason against them, conceals
    and does not, as soon as may be, disclose and make known the same
    to the President or to some judge of the United States, or to the
    governor or to some judge or justice of a particular State,
    is
    guilty of misprision of treason and shall be fined under this title
    or imprisoned not more than seven years, or both."

    So, we are all obligated to report treason to the appropriate authorities. Try reporting
    your Senator "to a judge or justice of a particular state" and watch him or her
    fall on the floor from laughter as they have security escort you out of the building.

    Next stop, mental evaluation. Bye Bye CHL.
    drift likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson


  2. #62
    VIP Member Array Richard58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXxplosive View Post
    IMO......46 socialists who need to be voted out.
    You got that right. These 46 need to be tried for treason against the United States of America. It's a socialist agenda that each one is working towards together...They are aiding the enemy in more ways then just this 2nd adm fight. This country is being torn apart from all directions by packs of liberial wolves supported by people like George Soros and Bloomberg through their funding the agenda. The POTUS is just a mouthpiece for the cause.
    The police are not there to protect you from crime, they are there to arrest the guy after the crime has been committed, assuming they find him. It is your responsibility to protect yourself and your family.

  3. #63
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18 U.S.C. § 2381 : US Code - Section 2381: Treason
    ... or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death ...
    Seeking a sworn agreement with a foreign power in direct conflict with the Constitution via willful breach of one's sworn oath to protect and defend it against all enemies. Real comforting and a solid aid to the designs of those foreign powers, due to such collaboration.
    HotGuns and oneshot like this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  4. #64
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Seeking a sworn agreement with a foreign power in direct conflict with the Constitution via willful breach of one's sworn oath to protect and defend it against all enemies. Real comforting and a solid aid to the designs of those foreign powers, due to such collaboration.
    Really....did you miss the part where the administration publicly said any treaty can not conflict with our Constitution? Whether he means it or not it defintily refutes your statement.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  5. #65
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Really....did you miss the part where the administration publicly said any treaty can not conflict with our Constitution? Whether he means it or not it defintily refutes your statement.
    The same administration actively seeking demise of the 2A, you mean? Sure, their opinion refutes such a concept, for what that's worth.
    HotGuns, phreddy and oneshot like this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Array rugergunner's Avatar
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    At this point I will take anything I can get. I'm glad the Senate voted against the UN turds getting to decide what is best here as far as firearms are concerned.
    AZJD1968 likes this.
    I would rather die on my feet, than to live on my knees.

  7. #67
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    The same administration actively seeking demise of the 2A, you mean? Sure, their opinion refutes such a concept, for what that's worth.
    Just about every administration has done something that would dilute the 2A or other rights. Where is the cry for treason with all of the other presidents. FWIW...folks don't like Obama. the man can find the solution to cold fusion and folks would still hate him.

    Fine, charge him with treason, but don't forget to mention every other pres including everybody's favorite Reagan.
    Hopyard and drift like this.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  8. #68
    Distinguished Member Array AZJD1968's Avatar
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    This is a thread about something good that happened for our second ammendment rights and you guys successfully turn it into an arguement about trying people for treason.

    That flag that is wrapped around your neck, loosen it a little so you can breath, and reflect on a battle that just went in our favor. Unbelieveable.
    drift and rugergunner like this.
    Stop whining and go do something that makes a difference!
    If you think that I may be talking to you, then I am.

  9. #69
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZJD1968 View Post
    This is a thread about something good that happened for our second ammendment rights and you guys successfully turn it into an arguement about trying people for treason.

    That flag that is wrapped around your neck, loosen it a little so you can breath, and reflect on a battle that just went in our favor. Unbelieveable.


    Reflected, already. But the moment's gone.

    The other side of the coin is to help ensure this crap ceases ... the gunnin' for our constitutionally-guaranteed RKBA, the deliberate breach of sworn oaths, the continued aiding and collaborating with those seeking to pose threat to our ability to continue to have the practical ability to stop tyranny. Am breathing just fine. Am reflecting on the larger picture and what all of these attacks mean, from the Congress to the petty little city councils around the country. Allowing it all to occur, and to continue occurring, just ain't in the cards, for tens of millions of us. Sorry, for those unwilling to fight it until dead and buried.
    HotGuns, msgt/ret and oneshot like this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  10. #70
    Distinguished Member Array AZJD1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post


    Reflected, already. But the moment's gone.

    The other side of the coin is to help ensure this crap ceases ... the gunnin' for our constitutionally-guaranteed RKBA, the deliberate breach of sworn oaths, the continued aiding and collaborating with those seeking to pose threat to our ability to continue to have the practical ability to stop tyranny. Am breathing just fine. Am reflecting on the larger picture and what all of these attacks mean, from the Congress to the petty little city councils around the country. Allowing it all to occur, and to continue occurring, just ain't in the cards, for tens of millions of us. Sorry, for those unwilling to fight it until dead and buried.
    I never said to not continue the fight, my point was that the thread was intended as a reminder of something good that has happened for us and now the thread is about treason.

    Never mind man, If all that you have in you is one moment to reflect and then go back to hijacking the thread with reasons for treason then... you go, and I will utilize the red X in the upper right hand corner of my screen.

    By the way, this crap will never cease.
    Stop whining and go do something that makes a difference!
    If you think that I may be talking to you, then I am.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Seeking a sworn agreement with a foreign power in direct conflict with the Constitution via willful breach of one's sworn oath to protect and defend it against all enemies. Real comforting and a solid aid to the designs of those foreign powers, due to such collaboration.
    You need to read the law in its entirety, grasp what is being said, and quit grabbing portions out of context.

    What part of the words in bold here aren't clear: ""Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war
    against them or adheres to their enemies,
    giving them aid and
    comfort within the United States or elsewhere,"

    How is voting on The Senate floor a matter of levying war against the US?

    And merely acting against the interests of the country isn't treason. If that were the case we'd have plenty of banksters
    and oil dudes in jail. Besides, it is just the opinion of some participants here that the proposed action is bad. We
    represent a minority of a minority. The minority in this country is NOT gun owners. Within that minority of gun owners
    the CC license holder is a tiny fraction.

    Why am I hammering on this? Because over the top ridiculous rhetoric about our law makers is a guaranteed way
    to lose the fight. It is totally counterproductive.

    I swear, the antis could come on this board almost any day and in a few hours pull enough stuff to scare the
    pajamas off their grandmas.
    drift likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  12. #72
    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...oh, cwap, Hoppy...now I gotta go out for eye bleach...what a vision...
    Hopyard likes this.

  13. #73
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Seeking a sworn agreement with a foreign power in direct conflict with the Constitution via willful breach of one's sworn oath to protect and defend it against all enemies. Real comforting and a solid aid to the designs of those foreign powers, due to such collaboration.
    You need to read the law in its entirety, grasp what is being said, and quit grabbing portions out of context.

    What part of the words in bold here aren't clear: ""Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere,"

    How is voting on The Senate floor a matter of levying war against the US?
    Done that.

    Good suggestion. Let's pay attention to the crucial little "or" in Article 3, Section 3, Clause 1 of the Constitution. A3/S3 reads as follows, in its entirety:


    "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

    The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
    "



    Never claimed such hirelings are engaging in outright war. They're not, of course. No battlefield, here, other than for the minds of the citizens who've hired them and for the threat of long-run enslavement to such attempts (were they to succeed). I was referring to the other half of the problem, the aiding/comforting problem.

    Seems clear, though, that such active striving to harm the guaranteed constitutional liberties of the citizens and voting on record against such liberties is the equivalent of providing "aid/comfort" to enemies who are seeking power over such liberties.

    To my way of thinking, it's the insidious aiding/comforting aspect of attacks on our Constitution that are the most vile, precisely because they can be hard to see for what they are. Particularly when the attempts are cloaked in such rosy, sweet tones ... such as, it's for the children, or whatever.

    Point being, we've got an entire elected group of people and some appointed hirelings who are actively seeking the demise of one of the cornerstones of the Constitution, in direct violation of their sworn oaths. We've got a list of 46, right here in this one vote, who've actively sought to do just that (in writing and by their actions).

    It's hard to believe the "enemies" of the 2A, including foreign powers such as the U.N., wouldn't become more powerful in their abilities to reign over the sovereign right of the citizens to be armed (or any of the other guaranteed rights of the people). After all, that is clearly the whole point of such attacks.

    Aided/comforted, by any other name. Let alone damaging our continuing ability to effectively defend our liberties and form of governance that includes these guaranteed rights. What is such a guarantee if we can allow such proactive attempts to abrogate our rights as citizens? (Foreign and domestic, I believe that was the warning to the People.)

    After all, WE are the power in our several states, not the hirelings who are seeking to destroy these liberties. At least, we'll remain so only so long as we're capable of withstanding the assault on our form of governance, in which the temporarily hired few are subservient to the People.

    Actively seeking the destruction or circumvention of the 2A (for example) in such direct ways is, it seems to me, a clear violation of this Clause.


    Quote Originally Posted by AZJD1968 View Post
    Never mind man, If all that you have in you is one moment to reflect and then go back to hijacking ...
    And as for the claim this is a hijack: incorrect. The single sentence in the OP was news of (a) the "win" via the common sense of the "ayes," as well as (b) the implied continuing threat from the "nays." Some simply choose not to ignore the warning of the threat of those "nays."

    The word came down more than a day ago, and this fight's been going on this past year and more. Been reflecting awhile. Hopefully, others have as well about the ongoing fight. As you say, that fight will continue whether we like it or not.


    Quote Originally Posted by AZJD1968 View Post
    By the way, this crap will never cease.
    You're right, at least so long as we keep treating such attempts for something other than what they are.

    Time to treat such things directly, and harshly, holding our hired staffers accountable in the most certain of terms. Else, we're going to lose it all in the end.
    oneshot likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  14. #74
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZJD1968 View Post
    This is a thread about something good that happened for our second amendment rights and you guys successfully turn it into an argument about trying people for treason.
    Agree, lets keep this post on track....... Its about the amendment received the votes needed........

    As to treason start a separate thread concerning that...... Treason is not an easy thing to "pin" on an individual....
    treason legal definition of treason. treason synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.
    AZJD1968 likes this.
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  15. #75
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    While the end result of this vote is good, I find it disgustingly close.

    I'm exhausted with watching our "leaders" become so permeated with garbage and wishing for a new hero to move this country to a better place.
    “There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.”
    ― Albert Einstein

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