Gun shop blocks Mark Kelly’s right to buy AR-15 (MERGED)

This is a discussion on Gun shop blocks Mark Kelly’s right to buy AR-15 (MERGED) within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; But but but, what did he do wrong??? Gun store rescinds Mark Kelly's rifle purchase, questions his 'intent' | Fox News...

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Thread: Gun shop blocks Mark Kelly’s right to buy AR-15 (MERGED)

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    Cool Gun shop blocks Mark Kelly’s right to buy AR-15 (MERGED)

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array lionround's Avatar
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    I like this part of the article.

    "He added that the store will return Kelly's money, donate the rifle to the Arizona Tactical Officers Association to be raffled as a fundraiser and make an additional contribution of $1,295 -- the value of the rifle -- to the Eddie Eagle GunSafe Program."
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    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
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    He is just another left wing hypocrite attempting to gain personal recognition. IMO, his actions have proven to an embarrassment to his wife and himself and only gave proof that the system works for the law abiding citizens. He will not get his AK and I am quite sure he will have a hard time purchasing a weapon in the future, at least in Arizona.
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    VIP Member Array high pockets's Avatar
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    I guess Mr. MacKinlay decided he didn't want Mr. Kelly as a customer. After all, it IS his store, and he is within his right to deny service to anyone he desires.
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    I figure Kelly for a run at political office, sooner than later.
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  7. #6
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by From the LGS
    "While I support and respect Mark Kelly's 2nd Amendment rights to purchase, possess, and use firearms in a safe and responsible manner, his recent statements to the media made it clear that his intent in purchasing the Sig Sauer M400 5.56mm rifle from us was for reasons other then for his personal use," MacKinlay said in the statement.
    Disagree.

    While I agree it's encumbent upon the seller to withhold sale in situations in which it's clear the purchase is on behalf of someone else (ie, "straw" sale), I disagree that judging the measure of one's "use" of a purchased product (so long as that's lawful) should dictate whether a seller gets to rescind a sale.

    It shouldn't matter whether a new buyer wants to shoot it, mount it, or set fire to it, or even to acquire it merely to make a point to his friends and scheming cohorts who will applaud the ease with which he's able to be a citizen in possession of his 2A-guaranteed right to keep/bear arms. Grousing about purpose isn't the seller's call, IMO, when that "grousing" gets in the way of a lawful and appropriate purchase.

    A case could be made the buyer purchased something other than what was really offered for sale, since apparently its availability hinged on whether one was not a died-in-the-wool anti-gunner in disguise. Fraudulent offering??

    While I think this buyer's intent was to prove points with his politically-wrongheaded cohorts, he has every right to make a lawful purchase for such purposes if he chooses to. And if that's what motivates him, he'll live with those motivations (pitiful though they seem to me).

    EDIT -- To paraphrase (from the film An American President):

    " America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You've gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say, "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours."

    You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms.

    Then you can stand up and sing about the land of the free.
    "
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  8. #7
    Ex Member Array Yoda's Avatar
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    The gun store turned a potential negative advertisement and anti-gun demonstration into a positive advertisement. Mr Kelly's demonstration of "how easy" did not work very well. And the donation still happened.

    I admire the gun shops positive gun rights stance but I am sure this will not get the same media attention as Mr Kelly's.
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    Member Array BeefyG's Avatar
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    After Mr. Kelly made his comments it became apparent that selling him the rifle wasn't in the best interests of the gun store in particular and the second amendment in general. I don't blame him for stopping the sale. It may be that when Mr. Kelly agreed to buy the rifle he said it was for his personal use and his comments exposed the lie. I don't personally know. The same freedom that allows Mr. Kelly to buy the rifle allows Mr. MacKinlay to refuse the sale. Mr. Kelly is still free to attempt to purchase another AR15 from another store if he chooses.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Taurahe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Disagree.

    While I agree it's encumbent upon the seller to withhold sale in situations in which it's clear the purchase is on behalf of someone else (ie, "straw" sale), I disagree that judging the measure of one's "use" of a purchased product (so long as that's lawful) should dictate whether a seller gets to rescind a sale.

    It shouldn't matter whether a new buyer wants to shoot it, mount it, or set fire to it, or even to acquire it merely to make a point to his friends and scheming cohorts who will applaud the ease with which he's able to be a citizen in possession of his 2A-guaranteed right to keep/bear arms. Grousing about purpose isn't the seller's call, IMO, when that "grousing" gets in the way of a lawful and appropriate purchase.

    A case could be made the buyer purchased something other than what was really offered for sale, since apparently its availability hinged on whether one was not a died-in-the-wool anti-gunner in disguise. Fraudulent offering??

    While I think this buyer's intent was to prove points with his politically-wrongheaded cohorts, he has every right to make a lawful purchase for such purposes if he chooses to. And if that's what motivates him, he'll live with those motivations (pitiful though they seem to me).

    EDIT -- To paraphrase (from the film An American President):

    " America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You've gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say, "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours."

    You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms.

    Then you can stand up and sing about the land of the free.
    "
    I have to agree. We as supporters of the 2nd amendment continuosly espouse our right to keep arms, but we canmnot depry the rights of other amendments when it does not agree with what we believe. The 1st amendment guarantees free speech, the anti's have the right to share their oppinions wether we like it or not. If the purchase was legal, then there was no reason to rescind the sale. To do so solely because the sale would be used in a flammatory manner against weapon sales and the 2nd amendment is a denial of the purchaser right to express themselves IMO. I understand it is the shopkeepers store, but his motivation was, according to the article, based on his believed intent of the purchaser. I will assume as a firearms dealer he is pro 2A, and has hard feelings against the anti's like many of us. Denying the sale makes because of this makes him no different than the anti's who want to take our guns, even though the 2A gives us the right to do so. Doing what to others which you tell the others not to do to you makes him a Hypocrit IMO. whats good for the goose is good for the gander..... lead by example..... treat others as you want to be treated..... you get the idea.
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  11. #10
    Member Array Sarisataka's Avatar
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    If the only reason to deny the purchase is 'political intent' then that is an extremely poor and hypocritical reason. The denial is done with 'political intent'

    If allowing the purchase to proceed, knowing he is going to pass the rifle on to the police, is a straw purchase under state or federal law (I have heard both yes and no, if it would be a straw purchase) then he is right to deny the sale and should say so.

    If Mr. Kelly wants to spend money using the 2A to make a 1A statement, it is his right, even though we may disagree with his point. IMO, an honored astronaut 'proving' he can pass a background check to purchase an 'assault rifle' is not much of a statement...
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  12. #11
    Senior Member Array DMan's Avatar
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    CBS did happen to cover it. Currently their are two stories on CBSNews.com. One with the cancellation of the sales, and the other a "feel good story" of amateur video showing him pulling a dog of a poor little seal.

    Here is the kicker, the story about sale being canceled is buried, and not found on their front page at all, and the whole last half the story changes the subject is back to the heroic act of pulling the dog off that poor little seal. (Such heroics, so brave.. makes my heart cry). A full second story of this heroic act is dedicated to the hypocrite on the fist page.

    The gun story is here.

    My personal opinion is that Mark Kelly lied, he stated it was for personal use, yet he did it for public purposes, and I wonder if he used his anti gun political action committee money to use try to buy it. The screwy part is, what did he have to prove? He went out and bought it to prove something that is known fact, a law abiding citizen goes through the steps to make the purchase, and can do it fairly easily. My question is.. so what did you try to prove again? It is the one piece of many regulations that the government imposes on us that actually is fairly efficient and fast. What Mr. Kelly wants is the government to become less efficient, more cumbersome, and more costly, and treating law abiding citizens like criminals, while doing nothing to stop criminals.
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  13. #12
    Member Array Cyrano's Avatar
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    "I have to agree. We as supporters of the 2nd amendment continuosly espouse our right to keep arms, but we canmnot depry the rights of other amendments when it does not agree with what we believe. The 1st amendment guarantees free speech, the anti's have the right to share their oppinions wether we like it or not. If the purchase was legal, then there was no reason to rescind the sale. To do so solely because the sale would be used in a flammatory manner against weapon sales and the 2nd amendment is a denial of the purchaser right to express themselves IMO. I understand it is the shopkeepers store, but his motivation was, according to the article, based on his believed intent of the purchaser. I will assume as a firearms dealer he is pro 2A, and has hard feelings against the anti's like many of us. Denying the sale makes because of this makes him no different than the anti's who want to take our guns, even though the 2A gives us the right to do so. Doing what to others which you tell the others not to do to you makes him a Hypocrit IMO. whats good for the goose is good for the gander..... lead by example..... treat others as you want to be treated..... you get the idea. "

    I tend to disagree. As an owner of a couple businesses I have domain over my products. When a customer, in the process of purchasing my product, espouses an interest in defaming my business, person, the product or my way of life in the purchase of said product I have denied the transaction. At the end of the day we all have our reputations to uphold, it's not always profitable, but I still have to look at my self in the mirror.

    It is as much as the gun store owners responsibility not to sell to a guy with evil intentions in his eye as it is to move product. The best gun store owners run the riff raf out to keep their reputation as an upstanding business.
    baren likes this.

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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    He indicated on his paperwork it was for his personal use and HE was the intended recipient. Then he publicly announced it was NOT for him and he intended to transfer (I.e. donate) it to someone else. Seems like a great reason to deny the purchase. Lie on the form and you should be charged.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    He indicated on his paperwork it was for his personal use and HE was the intended recipient. Then he publicly announced it was NOT for him and he intended to transfer (I.e. donate) it to someone else. Seems like a great reason to deny the purchase. Lie on the form and you should be charged.
    So long as its lawfully transferred, there's no issue IMO. Even if the decision to "sell" (or transfer) is made soon after purchase.
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    VIP Member Array Richard58's Avatar
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    With all his mouthing off he does not deserve the honor of owning a firearm IMHO.
    The police are not there to protect you from crime, they are there to arrest the guy after the crime has been committed, assuming they find him. It is your responsibility to protect yourself and your family.

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