Why more gun laws are not a panacea...

This is a discussion on Why more gun laws are not a panacea... within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; It's unfortunate that some people can't understand that laws only work when people obey them. I came across this story this morning. Sheriff slaying suspect ...

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Thread: Why more gun laws are not a panacea...

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    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Why more gun laws are not a panacea...

    It's unfortunate that some people can't understand that laws only work when people obey them. I came across this story this morning.

    Sheriff slaying suspect was barred from owning gun - seattlepi.com


    So, the suspect in the shooting of the West Virginia sheriff was legally prohibited from having a firearm.

    But Sparks says "it appears that the system didn't work."

    That's an understatement.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene83 View Post
    It's unfortunate that some people can't understand that laws only work when people obey them. I came across this story this morning.

    Sheriff slaying suspect was barred from owning gun - seattlepi.com


    So, the suspect in the shooting of the West Virginia sheriff was legally prohibited from having a firearm.

    But Sparks says "it appears that the system didn't work."

    That's an understatement.
    Unfortunately unless they release the information surrounding how the suspect acquired the gun, it's impossible to say 'the system didn't work'. He could either be referring to the NICS system, if the suspect was able to legally purchase a firearm because the NICS system didn't deny him; or he purchased it FTF and lied about his eligibility or acquired it through illegal means on the street, in which case I guess it would be the criminal justice, or mental health, system that failed because it let a dangerous individual out on the street to commit crimes. There are more questions than answers in that article.
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    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TX expat View Post
    Unfortunately unless they release the information surrounding how the suspect acquired the gun, it's impossible to say 'the system didn't work'. He could either be referring to the NICS system, if the suspect was able to legally purchase a firearm because the NICS system didn't deny him; or he purchased it FTF and lied about his eligibility or acquired it through illegal means on the street, in which case I guess it would be the criminal justice, or mental health, system that failed because it let a dangerous individual out on the street to commit crimes. There are more questions than answers in that article.
    I got the opinion that he was just making a general statement as in, "All the gun laws that are on the books are supposed to keep this type of thing from happening. It appears that the system didn't work." That's just my interpretation. I could be wrong.
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    Laws don't protect people, superior weapons and tactics protect people.
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    The problem with gun control is that drugs are already illegal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene83 View Post
    I got the opinion that he was just making a general statement as in, "All the gun laws that are on the books are supposed to keep this type of thing from happening. It appears that the system didn't work." That's just my interpretation. I could be wrong.
    Gotcha. I assumed he was talking specifically about the firearm purchase because that's the focus of both paragraphs directly before his quote.

    I do find it odd that they'd bring up this in the article:
    Authorities also have declined to say whether Maynard had a concealed weapon permit.
    If the guy had some documented mental illness, had been institutionalized and somehow managed to successfully receive a CWP, I bet some heads are going to roll. I think the article makes it sound like he passed an NICS and had purchased the firearm completely legally, but nobody is going on record with it, so I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TX expat View Post
    Gotcha. I assumed he was talking specifically about the firearm purchase because that's the focus of both paragraphs directly before his quote.

    I do find it odd that they'd bring up this in the article:

    If the guy had some documented mental illness, had been institutionalized and somehow managed to successfully receive a CWP, I bet some heads are going to roll. I think the article makes it sound like he passed an NICS and had purchased the firearm completely legally, but nobody is going on record with it, so I guess we'll have to wait and see.


    My apologies. On first read, I missed the half of the story posted below the advertisements. It changes the context when you read the whole thing. Still, it's pretty obvious that the laws already in place didn't stop the crime from happening and I doubt seriously that additional laws are all that's needed to fix the problem.
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    There are so many laws on the books that if you commit a crime and you end up with numerous charges. Doesn't seem to slow crime down one bit, so more laws aren't the answer.
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    Its so simple its pathetic. Always has been. I sound like a broken record I know but facts are facts. NO gun reg check law etc ever passed ever did anything to stop a person bent on violence and crime from getting a pickup load of machine guns if they really wanted that. None ever will. Why we and politicians keep speaking as if they do or ever have is beyond me.

    Its like debating if the moon is up at night and sun is up in the day. Id feel better if the government and those who support any gun regulations would just be honest and say Look big bro needs to control everything and it cant as long as citizens are armed. And citizens that support gun regs in any form just admit that no they dont do anything at all but I just feel a little more warm and cuddly with the Feds running the show as much as possible and telling me this stuff makes me safer.

    I wouldnt agree but at least it would be honest instead of having fantasy discussion over something that has never worked and will never work.
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    Maybe there should be a law that says you have to obey the laws.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    Its so simple its pathetic. Always has been. I sound like a broken record I know but facts are facts. NO gun reg check law etc ever passed ever did anything to stop a person bent on violence and crime from getting a pickup load of machine guns if they really wanted that. None ever will. Why we and politicians keep speaking as if they do or ever have is beyond me.

    Its like debating if the moon is up at night and sun is up in the day. Id feel better if the government and those who support any gun regulations would just be honest and say Look big bro needs to control everything and it cant as long as citizens are armed. And citizens that support gun regs in any form just admit that no they dont do anything at all but I just feel a little more warm and cuddly with the Feds running the show as much as possible and telling me this stuff makes me safer.

    I wouldnt agree but at least it would be honest instead of having fantasy discussion over something that has never worked and will never work.
    I've seen the moon during the day.... And not seen it at night.

    Regardless, I can and do agree with you on several points.

    Laws, no matter the number of them, do not stop criminals.

    Criminals, or madmen can, if they have enough desire, and/or cash can get as many weapons they want, possibly to include a nuke.. I mean, the madman in N Korea's got one... And "dinner jacket" in Iran is workin' on his.

    Criminals break laws with full knowledge and forethought, most of the time... In fact, usually, some sort of intent is required for a felony to occur.

    More gun laws are not a panacea... Laws are written for the honest man, not the criminal.

    That said, some recent developments/laws will placate the grieving, quiet (albeit temporarily) the antis, and give we defenders a moment to catch our collective breath. Without actually further infringing on our rights.

    The war is far from over... But placating the enemy at this point may be a good thing.
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
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    Laws were meant to administer justice after a crime has been committed. They cannot, and will not ever, prevent crime.





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    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    I've seen the moon during the day.... And not seen it at night.

    Regardless, I can and do agree with you on several points.

    Laws, no matter the number of them, do not stop criminals.

    Criminals, or madmen can, if they have enough desire, and/or cash can get as many weapons they want, possibly to include a nuke.. I mean, the madman in N Korea's got one... And "dinner jacket" in Iran is workin' on his.

    Criminals break laws with full knowledge and forethought, most of the time... In fact, usually, some sort of intent is required for a felony to occur.

    More gun laws are not a panacea... Laws are written for the honest man, not the criminal.

    That said, some recent developments/laws will placate the grieving, quiet (albeit temporarily) the antis, and give we defenders a moment to catch our collective breath. Without actually further infringing on our rights.

    The war is far from over... But placating the enemy at this point may be a good thing.
    I realize a lot are for placating the enemy. And I dont blame them. Im worn out with it as the next person.
    But for years that is all we do. Placate, hold ground, lose ground, lose ground when some of us think we are gaining ground or at least holding it.

    This time we had the momentum, we had weathered the storm of Newtown or the worst of it. And we were lucky this time because we had pure idiots like Shotgun Joe etc making the case for us that they are idiots. Now isnt the time to placate and waffle. Its finally time after years and years while we have morons on the other side to be aggressive and attack their publicly stated stupidity every time they spout it. Demand our reps start pushing to repeal gun regulations not hold where we are or give up just a bit more so we can rest. Demand the NRA stop running right up to the fence and then balking like they did on this SB that they say is worthy of gun owners support. No gun law is worthy of anything other that disdain disgust and outrage. They are all infringement. None do anything to prevent anything at all except put more pressure on law abiding citizens and disarm decent people.

    Thats the bottom line. And now with this bunch of maroons who very openly prove they have no idea what they are talking about to even non gun owners, openly state the Constitution is out of date and should be done away with which even most liberals dont go along with,,, now is the time to hammer back at them and get rid of a lot of this stupidity that is on the books.


    The next batch of gun grabbers may not be as inept as these are and placating may well be something we dearly regret in the near future.
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    I realize a lot are for placating the enemy. And I dont blame them. Im worn out with it as the next person.
    But for years that is all we do. Placate, hold ground, lose ground, lose ground when some of us think we are gaining ground or at least holding it.

    This time we had the momentum, we had weathered the storm of Newtown or the worst of it. And we were lucky this time because we had pure idiots like Shotgun Joe etc making the case for us that they are idiots. Now isnt the time to placate and waffle. Its finally time after years and years while we have morons on the other side to be aggressive and attack their publicly stated stupidity every time they spout it. Demand our reps start pushing to repeal gun regulations not hold where we are or give up just a bit more so we can rest. Demand the NRA stop running right up to the fence and then balking like they did on this SB that they say is worthy of gun owners support. No gun law is worthy of anything other that disdain disgust and outrage. They are all infringement. None do anything to prevent anything at all except put more pressure on law abiding citizens and disarm decent people.

    Thats the bottom line. And now with this bunch of maroons who very openly prove they have no idea what they are talking about to even non gun owners, openly state the Constitution is out of date and should be done away with which even most liberals dont go along with,,, now is the time to hammer back at them and get rid of a lot of this stupidity that is on the books.


    The next batch of gun grabbers may not be as inept as these are and placating may well be something we dearly regret in the near future.
    I agree with your ideas, but.

    Politics being what it is becoming (a science, of numbers), I have a concern that there are as many good republicans at risk at the midterms as there are democrats.

    Taking an offensive stance now may well put them at risk of being re elected. While we could win back seats, we could have a net loss...

    And you KNOW what that would mean.
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
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    I see your point on the wrong people being elected, I really can understand that way of thinking. But bear with me a sec on this. There are a lot of us, an awful lot of us that have our line drawn, and its been crossed.

    The Republican that come up with this compromise SB bill? If i was in his voting district he would be gone if my vote counted.

    If one of mine so much as nods their head in agreement to anything concerning any gun law in this state they are toast. Paul, McConnell and nobody in ky much is gonna give a rats derriere what party they are in. Lot of states are that way.

    I did the NRA thing because of folks here saying it was the thing to do. Ill never give them another dime nor encourage anyone else too because they betrayed us at the last minute and hung some good senators out to dry doing it.

    These wafflers from either party are dancing on razor edge that is just as likely to get them booted by the folks that normally would vote for them while they try not to lose some maybe votes from others. Net end of that game is they are gone.

    There is going to be a house cleaning over this for sure. And way more than some of you think look at it if they werent part of the solution they were the problem and out they go regardless of party. The Repubs that are waffling around on this are as evil as the ones pushing it and they gotta go too. They need to wake up. So does the NRA. A big old no computer having majority of gun owning voters are fed up with go along to get along. Its get with the program or get out of the dang way time. YMMV
    " It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales

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