Californians are probably just going to ban everything under/including the sun!

This is a discussion on Californians are probably just going to ban everything under/including the sun! within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; California lawmakers weigh first statewide ban on lead ammo | Fox News So one Old condor dies, suddenly all Lead ammuntion should be banned! You ...

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    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Californians are probably just going to ban everything under/including the sun!

    California lawmakers weigh first statewide ban on lead ammo | Fox News

    So one Old condor dies, suddenly all Lead ammuntion should be banned! You know I'm all about endagered species however these people are idiots!

    So if you ban Lead, then all the prairie dog, ground squirrel, pig hunters, and coyote hunters are not going to culling the heards as much do to the increase in price of non lead ammo...ground squirrel population grows out of hand, destroys hundreds of acres of farmland, causing milliions if not billions in damages, not to mention kill any oportunnity for out of state hunters to come in and hunt, and use their hard earned money in California. Now coyote populations explode due to the increase in food a food source......People get po-ed at the squirrels and decide to poison ground squirls, Condor eats groundsquirl dies from poison....Coyotes move into rural areas starting taking pets, or worse yet small children as their next meal.

    So California needs to ban the Coyote, the Ground squirel, and the Pig from mating that should solve their problems, Maybe they should just ask them to move to Neveda!
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

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    VIP Member Array JDE101's Avatar
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    The people of California ought to wake up and "ban" Di-Fi, Boxer, Pelosi and a few more of the liberals who are clueless and doing nothing positive to help the country or their state! Talk about the land of fruit and nuts! It just keeps getting worse.
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    I only have two reasons left to go there. If they ban the sun, I will be down to one...
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    So one Old condor dies, suddenly all Lead ammuntion should be banned!
    To be fair, the question of lead in the environment has been discussed and on the table for far longer than one dead condor. Plenty of ranges, for example, allow only lead-free ammo to be used on them, and that's around the country.
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    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    To be fair, the question of lead in the environment has been discussed and on the table for far longer than one dead condor. Plenty of ranges, for example, allow only lead-free ammo to be used on them, and that's around the country.
    Aww my friend, don't fall into the same trap.......Green ammunition is relatively new (last 20 years). Green ammuntion actually has caused more harm than good in many cases.

    For example: I used to shoot on one particular range (Government Run) this range had been open for decades. They had a good lead abbatement program, and every couple of years they had their lead mined, and recycled, they never once had anyissues with any ground water. Now about 10 years ago, they went green, they are now starting to have some issues with ground water. Lead is a heavy metal and is found naturally in the ground. The stuff in the "GREEN ammo" is not as natural and in some cases not natual at all. Here is a study the Army did which showed an increase in Cancer cases in groups that shot on "Green Ranges"

    Study: 'Green' Training Ammo Carries Cancer Risk | Danger Room | Wired.com

    CCW let me ask you this? For the last 500 years people have been using lead as projectiles, why all of a sudden is it an issue? The ranges that go "Green", I would guess are ones that don't have a proper lead abbatement program, and don't relize that in the end are causing more problems enviormentally than they would with a proper lead recycling program. I know another "Indoor" range that tried green ammuntion and found it litterly destroyed their auger system.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    Aww my friend, don't fall into the same trap.......Green ammunition is relatively new (last 20 years). Green ammuntion actually has caused more harm than good in many cases.
    IMO, it's not a trap. Lead exposure and contamination has been known for awhile now. And avoiding lead contamination needn't equate to blind contamination via other methods.

    CCW let me ask you this? For the last 500 years people have been using lead as projectiles, why all of a sudden is it an issue?
    Legitimate alternatives, seems to me. 500yrs ago, there weren't many easily-administered alternatives while out in the field, away from smithies. Rolling yer own was simplest with lead, back when. It still is, I'd say.

    Again, foolish blind replacement of lead with other ugly combinations doesn't help much, as you point out. That's merely crappy planning and standards for replacements, not consignment of the idea of removing lead/poison to the heap.
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    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    IMO, it's not a trap. Lead exposure and contamination has been known for awhile now. And avoiding lead contamination needn't equate to blind contamination via other methods.



    Legitimate alternatives, seems to me. 500yrs ago, there weren't many easily-administered alternatives while out in the field, away from smithies. Rolling yer own was simplest with lead, back when. It still is, I'd say.

    Again, foolish blind replacement of lead with other ugly combinations doesn't help much, as you point out. That's merely crappy planning and standards for replacements, not consignment of the idea of removing lead/poison to the heap.
    Agree whole heartly, however, currently there is no feasable alternative. Alternative means that its going to be the same, for example, Steel shot is a great alternative to lead for hunting waterfowl, however, the cost is nearly triple that of lead ammuntion.

    Compressed Copper/Tin might not be lead but its not a safe alternative and it 2 times more expensive than normally priced ammuniton.

    Lets look at the goals of the places that have the NO lead policy!

    Usually, its because there facitly is not designed to accomadate lead ammunition or that they can sell you the ammuntion. Its not for enviormental reasons.

    Lead in venison FAQ - NRAHuntersRights.org, NRA

    Q: When did health concerns over lead in venison surface?
    A: Health concerns over lead in venison were virtually nonexistent until March 2008 when Dr. William Cornatzer, a Bismarck dermatologist and board member of the Peregrine Fund, informed the North Dakota Department of Health that he’d tested 95 one-pound samples of ground venison donated through state food pantries and found lead fragments in 53 of them.

    At Cornatzer’s announcement, North Dakota and Minnesota actually disposed of thousands of pounds of venison destined for needy families. Iowa delayed distribution until it could do its own testing, then resumed distribution.

    Cornatzer was on the board of directors for the Peregrine Fund, a group that had supported the ban on lead ammunition in California’s condor range. Cornatzer’s announcement was timed just weeks before the Peregrine Fund was set to hold a conference in May, entitled, “Ingestion of Spent Lead Ammunition: Implications for Wildlife and Humans.” Many felt the timing of his announcement was a deliberate attempt to draw attention to the conference.

    Here is some info on consequences:


    Q: What are the consequences of a ban on lead ammunition?
    A: Restrictions or bans on the use of lead ammunition may ultimately drive people out of hunting. Non-lead ammunition can cost double what lead ammunition costs, and availability is much more limited. Reducing the number of hunters reduces the income generated by the sale of hunting licenses (the major source of funding for game and fish departments), has a negative impact on wildlife management, and imposes economic losses on hunting-related businesses. In Minnesota alone in 2006, hunting-related retail sales totaled $637,270,173. Minnesota hunters also generated $75,882,194 in state taxes, plus $86,158,974 in federal tax revenues.

    In 2008, the first hunting season after California imposed a ban on lead ammunition in the state’s condor range, hunting license sales fell significantly after three years of steady gains. In the affected regions, the number of deer hunters dropped nearly 5 percent and hog hunters dropped 15 percent—costing the California Department of Fish and Game more than $200,000 in lost tag fees alone. (Source: "Ammo Rule Has Massive Impact," Jim Matthews, San Bernardino Sun, March 13, 2009 (Ammo rule has massive impact - San Bernardino County Sun)

    Contributions to food banks will also suffer. For example, donations to Minnesota’s food bank program fell off dramatically. Hunters donated 2,000 deer in 2007, compared to 675 in 2008. Although no decision has been reached yet, Minnesota state officials are considering terminating the venison donation program, which would deprive thousands of needy families of lean, protein-rich meals, not to mention make it more difficult for the state to reach its deer management objectives.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

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    Member Array bigsky109's Avatar
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    I think California should be removed from the USA.....Maybe join Mexico since their gun ban seem to be working down south there... (sarcasm)

    But according to Feinstein, you can legally hunt humans there. LOL
    "The key to freedom is the ability to defend yourself"

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    VIP Member Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    ...So California needs to ban...the Pig from mating that should solve their problems...
    Too late to do any good. Feinswine is well past childbearing age, anyway.
    Last edited by Kilowatt3; April 29th, 2013 at 09:44 PM.
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    Member Array the6shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    California lawmakers weigh first statewide ban on lead ammo | Fox News

    So one Old condor dies, suddenly all Lead ammuntion should be banned! You know I'm all about endagered species however these people are idiots!

    So if you ban Lead, then all the prairie dog, ground squirrel, pig hunters, and coyote hunters are not going to culling the heards as much do to the increase in price of non lead ammo...ground squirrel population grows out of hand, destroys hundreds of acres of farmland, causing milliions if not billions in damages, not to mention kill any oportunnity for out of state hunters to come in and hunt, and use their hard earned money in California. Now coyote populations explode due to the increase in food a food source......People get po-ed at the squirrels and decide to poison ground squirls, Condor eats groundsquirl dies from poison....Coyotes move into rural areas starting taking pets, or worse yet small children as their next meal.

    So California needs to ban the Coyote, the Ground squirel, and the Pig from mating that should solve their problems, Maybe they should just ask them to move to Neveda!
    California should have banned, Diane Fienstien's parents from breading too.....

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    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    One day the people will wake up.

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    Distinguished Member Array Arborigine's Avatar
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    Banning the sun will not happen. I understand I can install solar panels in the shade of this forest, and then legally force my neighbor to remove trees.
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    You guys see what we have to deal with out here? Every time a state like NY pulls some ridiculous stunt, CA has to outdo them. The government out here cannot stand to be outdone when they believe it is they who should be on top of things and pioneers blissfulness. Well you know what it reminds me of? You've all seen a chicken turd right? Well, you know that little white section on the top called CA? Well, it's still chicken turd.

    One thing's for sure, our reloading data is surely going to look a bit different than yours.
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    VIP Member Array GhostMaker's Avatar
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    If we dig the lead from the ground to make bullets, we then shoot the bullets and put them back in the ground, aren't we recycling??
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    Senior Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    Lead free ammo will save the planet about as equally as a Prius alternative to a Civic. IE, it's a false sense of security geared towards an issue that only exists politically.

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